0 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:30,000 Dear viewer, these subtitles were generated by a machine via the service Trint and therefore are (very) buggy. If you are capable, please help us to create good quality subtitles: https://c3subtitles.de/talk/163 Thanks! 1 00:00:10,650 --> 00:00:11,789 There you go. 2 00:00:11,790 --> 00:00:12,790 Much better, 3 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:16,529 although a lot of it is designed for 4 00:00:16,530 --> 00:00:19,019 talk of English harden and overcome 5 00:00:19,020 --> 00:00:20,609 the knock off Deutsche, if you can all 6 00:00:20,610 --> 00:00:22,739 kind of a so thanks for having 7 00:00:22,740 --> 00:00:23,740 me. 8 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:27,889 My German, is there certain words 9 00:00:27,890 --> 00:00:29,959 I still do not know as well, but as 10 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:31,939 mentioned, my name is Elizabeth Stark and 11 00:00:31,940 --> 00:00:34,069 I am an open internet advocate. 12 00:00:34,070 --> 00:00:36,199 I was one of many 13 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:38,299 people involved in the movement against 14 00:00:38,300 --> 00:00:40,519 SOPA in the US. 15 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:42,049 And I want to tell you guys today about 16 00:00:42,050 --> 00:00:43,759 some lessons that we learned in the 17 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:45,859 process and a bit about the story 18 00:00:45,860 --> 00:00:47,089 of what happened. 19 00:00:47,090 --> 00:00:49,519 So it all began in October 20 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:51,589 of 2011, when I got a phone call 21 00:00:51,590 --> 00:00:53,149 from some of my friends who are internet 22 00:00:53,150 --> 00:00:54,289 activists. 23 00:00:54,290 --> 00:00:56,029 They told me about a bill that had just 24 00:00:56,030 --> 00:00:58,099 been released by a guy 25 00:00:58,100 --> 00:01:00,469 named Lamar Smith in Texas, in the House, 26 00:01:00,470 --> 00:01:02,899 in the US, called the Stop Online Piracy 27 00:01:02,900 --> 00:01:04,999 Act. No one had heard of it at the 28 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:07,219 time, but basically, after reading 29 00:01:07,220 --> 00:01:08,839 up on the bill, we realized that this was 30 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:10,939 the worst bill we had seen 31 00:01:10,940 --> 00:01:13,549 in over a decade of being involved 32 00:01:13,550 --> 00:01:15,289 in internet advocacy. 33 00:01:15,290 --> 00:01:16,819 So we called up our friends over at 34 00:01:16,820 --> 00:01:18,739 Mozilla, including the general counsel 35 00:01:18,740 --> 00:01:20,809 and one of the founders in the chair, and 36 00:01:20,810 --> 00:01:23,359 we said that we needed to do something. 37 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:25,729 So we and a group of individuals 38 00:01:25,730 --> 00:01:27,919 ranging from lawyers to 39 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:29,779 entrepreneurs to venture capitalists to 40 00:01:29,780 --> 00:01:31,819 advocates and a lot of folks in between, 41 00:01:31,820 --> 00:01:33,949 organized a meeting in early November 42 00:01:33,950 --> 00:01:36,079 2011 at Mozilla's 43 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:37,549 headquarters in Mountain View, and we had 44 00:01:37,550 --> 00:01:40,069 people on the phone from New York, D.C. 45 00:01:40,070 --> 00:01:41,539 and ever in between. 46 00:01:41,540 --> 00:01:42,799 And we had somebody there who was a 47 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:44,719 staffer for one of the congresspeople. 48 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:46,489 Zoe Lofgren is her name. 49 00:01:46,490 --> 00:01:48,619 And we were told that this bill 50 00:01:48,620 --> 00:01:50,809 was going to pass. 51 00:01:50,810 --> 00:01:52,429 In fact, there were so many supporters, 52 00:01:52,430 --> 00:01:54,469 including the firefighters union. 53 00:01:54,470 --> 00:01:56,059 We were like, Why do the firefighters 54 00:01:56,060 --> 00:01:57,289 care about this? 55 00:01:57,290 --> 00:02:00,019 That if we didn't do something huge 56 00:02:00,020 --> 00:02:02,419 and really huge, it would pass. 57 00:02:02,420 --> 00:02:04,999 So we were given a tall task 58 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:06,559 and what we did was we decided at that 59 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:08,659 meeting to 60 00:02:08,660 --> 00:02:10,879 organize. On November 16th 61 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:11,880 of 2011, 62 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:15,589 National Censorship Day, a day of protest 63 00:02:15,590 --> 00:02:16,639 against SOPA 64 00:02:17,870 --> 00:02:19,189 Fight for the Future, which is a group, 65 00:02:19,190 --> 00:02:21,739 was quite involved in this and Tumblr. 66 00:02:21,740 --> 00:02:23,059 Some of you guys may have heard of it 67 00:02:23,060 --> 00:02:25,429 actually surprised us all by 68 00:02:25,430 --> 00:02:27,889 creating this anti censorship 69 00:02:27,890 --> 00:02:30,109 tool on their website, which ultimately 70 00:02:30,110 --> 00:02:31,129 resulted in. 71 00:02:32,330 --> 00:02:33,439 And here's the tool that they actually 72 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:35,959 ended up using to engage their users 73 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:38,899 in calling Congress in the end. 74 00:02:38,900 --> 00:02:40,849 Over 80000 people on that day called 75 00:02:40,850 --> 00:02:41,839 Congress, and we thought this was 76 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:43,819 amazing. The phone's ringing off the 77 00:02:43,820 --> 00:02:46,249 hook. People are now understanding why 78 00:02:46,250 --> 00:02:48,259 this bill was so dangerous and what was 79 00:02:48,260 --> 00:02:49,260 wrong with it. 80 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:52,729 So then along comes December of 81 00:02:52,730 --> 00:02:54,679 2011, when there was a hearing in 82 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:56,749 Congress. The markup hearing 83 00:02:56,750 --> 00:02:58,819 and 200000 people turned 84 00:02:58,820 --> 00:03:01,069 in tuned in to this 85 00:03:01,070 --> 00:03:02,899 online, which frankly, I never watched a 86 00:03:02,900 --> 00:03:04,279 congressional hearing. Lots of my friends 87 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:05,809 hadn't either. And yet on Twitter, 88 00:03:05,810 --> 00:03:08,209 everyone I knew it seemed was watching 89 00:03:08,210 --> 00:03:10,399 this hearing. And what was fundamentally 90 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:12,559 obvious to everybody that was tuned 91 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:14,929 in was that Congress did not 92 00:03:14,930 --> 00:03:17,089 understand the internet. 93 00:03:17,090 --> 00:03:19,699 In fact, it was so blatantly obvious 94 00:03:19,700 --> 00:03:21,649 that the internet community finally woke 95 00:03:21,650 --> 00:03:23,419 up to the fact that the people that were 96 00:03:23,420 --> 00:03:26,119 regulating the internet in the US 97 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:28,189 did not understand really 98 00:03:28,190 --> 00:03:30,499 any kind of technical aspects of it. 99 00:03:30,500 --> 00:03:32,569 And we realized that it was no longer 100 00:03:32,570 --> 00:03:34,729 OK for Congress not 101 00:03:34,730 --> 00:03:35,929 to understand the internet. 102 00:03:35,930 --> 00:03:37,939 That said, it also wasn't necessarily OK 103 00:03:37,940 --> 00:03:39,889 for people on the internet side of things 104 00:03:39,890 --> 00:03:41,719 and not at all understand how Congress in 105 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:43,399 the US works. 106 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:45,439 So during this hearing, a guy named Jared 107 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:47,549 Polis, he's out of Boulder, Colorado, 108 00:03:47,550 --> 00:03:48,829 a representative. He's one of the few 109 00:03:48,830 --> 00:03:50,359 people in Congress that does understand 110 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:51,319 the internet. 111 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:53,389 He's also a former entrepreneur 112 00:03:53,390 --> 00:03:55,669 decided to troll Congress, really? 113 00:03:55,670 --> 00:03:57,829 And the folks on the committee and what 114 00:03:57,830 --> 00:03:59,899 he did was he decided that he was 115 00:03:59,900 --> 00:04:01,459 going to propose an amendment because the 116 00:04:01,460 --> 00:04:02,839 point of the hearing was to propose 117 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:04,369 amendments to the bill. 118 00:04:04,370 --> 00:04:06,229 That said that, well, if we're so 119 00:04:06,230 --> 00:04:08,329 concerned about piracy and so is 120 00:04:08,330 --> 00:04:10,039 going to be used to censor the internet, 121 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:11,689 we shouldn't allow it to be used for 122 00:04:11,690 --> 00:04:13,729 porn. Because really, do we want to use 123 00:04:13,730 --> 00:04:15,379 government resources to help 124 00:04:15,380 --> 00:04:16,380 pornographers? 125 00:04:17,300 --> 00:04:20,328 So he actually, in the hearing 126 00:04:20,329 --> 00:04:22,489 included the lyrics of 127 00:04:22,490 --> 00:04:24,079 this song, which some of you may know 128 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:25,309 from Avenue Q 129 00:04:25,310 --> 00:04:27,409 Finally, I get to teach a 130 00:04:27,410 --> 00:04:30,409 whole lesson all by myself, 131 00:04:30,410 --> 00:04:30,859 and I'm 132 00:04:30,860 --> 00:04:32,479 going to teach something relevant, 133 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:33,979 something modern. 134 00:04:33,980 --> 00:04:35,869 The internet. 135 00:04:35,870 --> 00:04:38,119 The internet is really, 136 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:40,810 really great for porn. 137 00:04:42,580 --> 00:04:44,939 So I don't have to. 138 00:04:44,940 --> 00:04:47,159 For poor, there's always 139 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:49,649 some site or porn eyebrows 140 00:04:49,650 --> 00:04:51,709 all day and night for porn. 141 00:04:51,710 --> 00:04:54,329 It's like I'm surfing at the speed 142 00:04:54,330 --> 00:04:55,259 of light. 143 00:04:55,260 --> 00:04:56,260 Oh boy. 144 00:04:58,110 --> 00:05:00,359 So he actually entered those words into 145 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:01,409 the congressional record. 146 00:05:01,410 --> 00:05:03,659 People were concerned that the lyrics 147 00:05:03,660 --> 00:05:04,949 might not be appropriate. 148 00:05:04,950 --> 00:05:07,109 And then said that SOPA 149 00:05:07,110 --> 00:05:08,999 would be a pornographers wet dream, and I 150 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:10,000 believe that was in the record. 151 00:05:11,490 --> 00:05:14,699 So moving on to January, 152 00:05:14,700 --> 00:05:16,979 in particular the Reddit 153 00:05:16,980 --> 00:05:18,479 community, how many Redditors were in the 154 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:19,709 room, by the way? Raise your hands, 155 00:05:19,710 --> 00:05:20,689 Redditors. 156 00:05:20,690 --> 00:05:22,259 It's really not that many. 157 00:05:23,490 --> 00:05:25,619 So they got together and decided 158 00:05:25,620 --> 00:05:27,179 that they were going to organize a 159 00:05:27,180 --> 00:05:28,619 protest, and what they were going to do 160 00:05:28,620 --> 00:05:30,689 was to block out the Reddit site. 161 00:05:30,690 --> 00:05:31,949 And for those Redditors that are in the 162 00:05:31,950 --> 00:05:32,969 room, you know, the Reddit, it's 163 00:05:32,970 --> 00:05:34,409 basically like crack. 164 00:05:34,410 --> 00:05:36,569 So if you are not 165 00:05:36,570 --> 00:05:37,889 able to access right of her day, that's 166 00:05:37,890 --> 00:05:39,749 really giving up a lot. 167 00:05:39,750 --> 00:05:42,239 And they came together and decided that 168 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,219 on January 18th, which is a day that a 169 00:05:44,220 --> 00:05:46,289 hearing was scheduled, they were 170 00:05:46,290 --> 00:05:49,349 going to organize a blackout. 171 00:05:49,350 --> 00:05:51,359 By the way, later on, there were reports 172 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:53,639 that Reddit had not yet hired 173 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:55,619 any lobbyists for internet policy. 174 00:05:55,620 --> 00:05:57,059 And I was like two people in the media 175 00:05:57,060 --> 00:05:58,289 understand that Reddit is a bunch of 176 00:05:58,290 --> 00:06:00,329 people and effectively a forum, and that 177 00:06:00,330 --> 00:06:01,619 there's no way that Reddit is going to 178 00:06:01,620 --> 00:06:03,029 hire lobbyists. 179 00:06:03,030 --> 00:06:04,529 But anyway, so they came together and did 180 00:06:04,530 --> 00:06:06,329 that as a community than the Wikipedia 181 00:06:06,330 --> 00:06:07,769 community came together. 182 00:06:07,770 --> 00:06:09,869 And again, as a community, not 183 00:06:09,870 --> 00:06:12,359 merely some top down approach decided 184 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:14,189 that they were also going to block out 185 00:06:14,190 --> 00:06:15,989 and organize a protest. 186 00:06:15,990 --> 00:06:18,149 So on January 18th, 187 00:06:18,150 --> 00:06:20,189 as you guys, a lot of you probably saw 188 00:06:20,190 --> 00:06:23,069 and we had this massive internet blackout 189 00:06:23,070 --> 00:06:25,409 and many teenagers 190 00:06:25,410 --> 00:06:27,569 then ended up complaining that they 191 00:06:27,570 --> 00:06:29,699 were not able to finish their 192 00:06:29,700 --> 00:06:30,700 homework. 193 00:06:31,770 --> 00:06:33,299 Little, little did they know, 194 00:06:34,590 --> 00:06:36,179 by the way, you could actually access 195 00:06:36,180 --> 00:06:37,589 Wikipedia from their mobile site or 196 00:06:37,590 --> 00:06:38,819 disable it via JavaScript. 197 00:06:38,820 --> 00:06:39,820 It really wasn't all that hard, 198 00:06:42,060 --> 00:06:44,159 but the teenagers were mad and just 199 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:46,389 goes to show how useful Wikipedia is. 200 00:06:46,390 --> 00:06:49,589 In all, on January 18th, we had 201 00:06:49,590 --> 00:06:52,799 over 10 million people signed petitions. 202 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:54,659 Over eight million calls attempted. 203 00:06:54,660 --> 00:06:56,729 Not all necessarily went through, but it 204 00:06:56,730 --> 00:06:58,859 was clearly the largest protest in online 205 00:06:58,860 --> 00:07:01,259 history, and people 206 00:07:01,260 --> 00:07:02,879 in D.C. were really taken aback. 207 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,189 You can see here on January 18th, 208 00:07:05,190 --> 00:07:06,869 there were quite a lot of people in 209 00:07:06,870 --> 00:07:09,149 support of SOPA, and then as 210 00:07:09,150 --> 00:07:10,829 that day progressed, they were dropping 211 00:07:10,830 --> 00:07:12,299 like flies every few minutes. 212 00:07:12,300 --> 00:07:14,369 We get a new email on these SOPA 213 00:07:14,370 --> 00:07:16,259 email list of the people organizing the 214 00:07:16,260 --> 00:07:18,479 protests as to who dropped 215 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:20,639 out. And by the end, 216 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:22,979 many more were not in support of it than 217 00:07:22,980 --> 00:07:23,980 were. 218 00:07:24,870 --> 00:07:26,369 In fact, on January 18th, we even had 219 00:07:26,370 --> 00:07:27,629 people protesting in the streets. 220 00:07:27,630 --> 00:07:29,699 And if you had told me a year beforehand 221 00:07:29,700 --> 00:07:31,199 that people would be protesting a 222 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:32,879 copyright law and I'd been involved in 223 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:34,859 the copyright movement for nearly a 224 00:07:34,860 --> 00:07:36,869 decade, I would never have believed you. 225 00:07:36,870 --> 00:07:38,429 And yet it actually did happen. 226 00:07:39,660 --> 00:07:42,119 And then moving on to Europe, as 227 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:44,249 a lot of folks here, I'm sure, know the 228 00:07:44,250 --> 00:07:46,619 momentum spread to Acta 229 00:07:46,620 --> 00:07:48,839 and this bill that I used to teach about 230 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:50,759 to my students at Yale, which was really 231 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:52,709 quite obscure. They might have read about 232 00:07:52,710 --> 00:07:54,989 it merely because I made them became 233 00:07:54,990 --> 00:07:56,849 mainstream and people knew about it and 234 00:07:56,850 --> 00:07:58,919 people in Poland were protesting in 235 00:07:58,920 --> 00:07:59,939 the streets. 236 00:07:59,940 --> 00:08:02,219 Even the Polish parliament, 237 00:08:02,220 --> 00:08:04,079 by the way, I wish the Congress in the 238 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,029 U.S. would do something nearly this cool, 239 00:08:06,030 --> 00:08:08,519 but I think it's quite unlikely decided 240 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:10,410 to protest with Guy Fawkes masks. 241 00:08:12,370 --> 00:08:14,109 So what were the lessons coming out of 242 00:08:14,110 --> 00:08:16,689 this really unprecedented uprising 243 00:08:16,690 --> 00:08:17,649 with SOPA? 244 00:08:17,650 --> 00:08:19,689 Well, the first was that it's really 245 00:08:19,690 --> 00:08:21,879 useful to have a rallying point, 246 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:23,199 something that people can wrap their 247 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:24,159 heads around. 248 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,169 For years, we in the open internet 249 00:08:26,170 --> 00:08:28,089 movement had been trying to explain to 250 00:08:28,090 --> 00:08:29,979 the world why things like this mattered. 251 00:08:29,980 --> 00:08:32,048 But until we had a bill that threatened 252 00:08:32,049 --> 00:08:34,029 the very nature of the open internet that 253 00:08:34,030 --> 00:08:36,069 threatened to censor, that could pose all 254 00:08:36,070 --> 00:08:37,839 sorts of technological issues with the 255 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:40,418 DNS system, we weren't 256 00:08:40,419 --> 00:08:42,759 able to engage people and rally them. 257 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,369 So having this kind of rallying point and 258 00:08:45,370 --> 00:08:47,379 a deadline of sorts, specifically when 259 00:08:47,380 --> 00:08:48,399 there was a bill that was going to be 260 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:50,769 passed that we had to stop was incredibly 261 00:08:50,770 --> 00:08:53,349 useful. We even on November 16th, 262 00:08:53,350 --> 00:08:54,999 chose a somewhat arbitrary day. 263 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:56,079 There was going to be hearing, I think 264 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:58,929 that was then canceled to set up 265 00:08:58,930 --> 00:09:00,999 this kind of protest online 266 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:02,709 and that also having this kind of 267 00:09:02,710 --> 00:09:04,359 deadline. Think about a Kickstarter 268 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:05,949 campaign when the campaign is going to 269 00:09:05,950 --> 00:09:08,139 run out. Well, we did something similar 270 00:09:08,140 --> 00:09:09,609 with this open event. 271 00:09:09,610 --> 00:09:11,679 The second is about means. 272 00:09:11,680 --> 00:09:13,929 So evolutionary 273 00:09:13,930 --> 00:09:15,999 biologist Richard Dawkins is 274 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,789 the originator actually of the term meme. 275 00:09:18,790 --> 00:09:20,889 He used it to be 276 00:09:20,890 --> 00:09:22,659 the cultural equivalent of a gene, 277 00:09:23,680 --> 00:09:25,869 a cultural idea that mutates 278 00:09:25,870 --> 00:09:27,099 in a way. 279 00:09:27,100 --> 00:09:28,779 And I'm sure many of you are familiar 280 00:09:28,780 --> 00:09:30,759 with, you know, the whole LOLCat thing. 281 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:31,899 I don't need to tell this crowd about 282 00:09:31,900 --> 00:09:33,999 that. But what we saw with SOPA was that 283 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:35,049 it became a mean. 284 00:09:35,050 --> 00:09:37,569 People took it and made it their own, 285 00:09:37,570 --> 00:09:39,399 and they created all sorts of memes out 286 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:41,229 of SOPA that then spread. 287 00:09:41,230 --> 00:09:42,309 So here's one example. 288 00:09:43,660 --> 00:09:45,819 A long, long time 289 00:09:45,820 --> 00:09:48,069 ago on the world's largest 290 00:09:48,070 --> 00:09:50,409 network of interconnected computers, 291 00:09:50,410 --> 00:09:52,629 those long cats used to make 292 00:09:52,630 --> 00:09:54,070 me laugh, 293 00:09:55,450 --> 00:09:58,209 and I knew I could make a joke 294 00:09:58,210 --> 00:10:00,339 and not be sued by any 295 00:10:00,340 --> 00:10:02,499 nasty folk on the 296 00:10:02,500 --> 00:10:04,729 RIAA is 297 00:10:04,730 --> 00:10:07,389 speedy half. 298 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,620 Then along came SOPA PIPA, 299 00:10:13,030 --> 00:10:16,269 the internet's very own grim reaper. 300 00:10:16,270 --> 00:10:19,389 Users could not edit 301 00:10:19,390 --> 00:10:23,019 Ars Technica and Reddit, 302 00:10:23,020 --> 00:10:25,359 Tumblr, Gawker, Hacker 303 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:28,029 News and something awful, 304 00:10:28,030 --> 00:10:31,029 saying the Blues and every 305 00:10:31,030 --> 00:10:33,939 log in was refused. 306 00:10:33,940 --> 00:10:34,940 The day? 307 00:10:36,130 --> 00:10:38,859 The LOL cats 308 00:10:38,860 --> 00:10:39,860 died 309 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:43,089 while I had lots of 310 00:10:43,090 --> 00:10:44,799 thing you can buy. 311 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:46,899 They got paid off, should be laid off 312 00:10:46,900 --> 00:10:49,179 re election tonight 313 00:10:49,180 --> 00:10:51,489 are web means more than lawyers, 314 00:10:51,490 --> 00:10:52,089 lobbies 315 00:10:52,090 --> 00:10:54,369 and lies to speak up before 316 00:10:54,370 --> 00:10:57,399 the internet dies. 317 00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:59,679 Speak up before the internet 318 00:10:59,680 --> 00:11:00,680 I. 319 00:11:03,740 --> 00:11:04,639 You write a 320 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:06,949 decent lot, you care 321 00:11:06,950 --> 00:11:08,149 about copyright 322 00:11:08,150 --> 00:11:09,719 at all. 323 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:12,390 Just win back your seat. 324 00:11:14,020 --> 00:11:15,639 Johnson will be 325 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:17,769 keen to add your watch 326 00:11:17,770 --> 00:11:20,079 the slow death of a Web, 327 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:22,299 and you'll be left with nothing 328 00:11:22,300 --> 00:11:23,859 more to tweet. 329 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:27,969 Well, I know it's looking 330 00:11:27,970 --> 00:11:30,189 pretty grim because they'll say 331 00:11:30,190 --> 00:11:33,069 our culture limb from limb. 332 00:11:33,070 --> 00:11:35,169 Much damn supports. 333 00:11:35,170 --> 00:11:35,649 Well, this 334 00:11:35,650 --> 00:11:36,939 law we must 335 00:11:36,940 --> 00:11:39,099 support, but we 336 00:11:39,100 --> 00:11:41,349 can't let lobbyists run amok 337 00:11:41,350 --> 00:11:42,669 with our series of 338 00:11:42,670 --> 00:11:44,649 tools and that big dump truck. 339 00:11:44,650 --> 00:11:47,139 And I know some folks who want to give 340 00:11:48,670 --> 00:11:51,099 the the day 341 00:11:51,100 --> 00:11:52,720 the law casts. 342 00:11:54,550 --> 00:11:56,599 I say, you know, why, 343 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:58,899 why philosophy you can buy big 344 00:11:58,900 --> 00:12:00,549 up here now should be laid out free 345 00:12:00,550 --> 00:12:01,979 election did not. 346 00:12:01,980 --> 00:12:03,179 I that means more 347 00:12:03,180 --> 00:12:05,249 than lawyers, lobbies and lies, so 348 00:12:05,250 --> 00:12:06,649 speak up for the answer. 349 00:12:06,650 --> 00:12:07,650 And I. 350 00:12:13,190 --> 00:12:15,379 Why, why was it? 351 00:12:15,380 --> 00:12:16,669 All right, I think you guys get the 352 00:12:16,670 --> 00:12:17,670 picture, but 353 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,259 yeah, that that video got millions of 354 00:12:21,260 --> 00:12:23,479 views and really 355 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:24,499 helped to spread the message. 356 00:12:24,500 --> 00:12:26,269 So this is a T-shirt that a friend of 357 00:12:26,270 --> 00:12:27,829 mine, Fred Benenson over a Kickstarter 358 00:12:27,830 --> 00:12:30,379 made the blank, blank, SOPA 359 00:12:30,380 --> 00:12:32,569 blank, blank, blank, stupid T-shirt. 360 00:12:32,570 --> 00:12:33,570 I own one of these. 361 00:12:36,060 --> 00:12:37,440 These super sunglasses, 362 00:12:39,090 --> 00:12:40,499 another man that came out of it and my 363 00:12:40,500 --> 00:12:42,769 favorite The Apprentice 364 00:12:42,770 --> 00:12:45,029 never built on toilet paper. 365 00:12:45,030 --> 00:12:46,030 This was like. 366 00:12:47,780 --> 00:12:49,759 You know, this is a Kickstarter campaign, 367 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:51,679 and it didn't even get funded. 368 00:12:51,680 --> 00:12:53,089 I should have funded it, but I think I 369 00:12:53,090 --> 00:12:54,090 found out too late. 370 00:12:55,130 --> 00:12:57,289 So the third lesson learned is one of 371 00:12:57,290 --> 00:12:59,359 chaos. So the internet is decentralized 372 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:00,679 and distributed. I mean, the internet 373 00:13:00,680 --> 00:13:01,999 that I want, although unfortunately, 374 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:03,349 we've seen it had in somewhat of a 375 00:13:03,350 --> 00:13:05,869 different direction and it is chaotic. 376 00:13:05,870 --> 00:13:08,119 And much like that, the movement against 377 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:09,349 SOPA was one of chaos. 378 00:13:09,350 --> 00:13:11,059 We often didn't have our shit together. 379 00:13:11,060 --> 00:13:12,469 People, you know, we're up all night. 380 00:13:12,470 --> 00:13:13,999 Nobody knew what was going on. 381 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:15,709 But actually, in the end, that chaos 382 00:13:15,710 --> 00:13:17,719 ended up helping us. 383 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:19,549 You know, the internet as a series of 384 00:13:19,550 --> 00:13:21,049 tubes, kind of. 385 00:13:21,050 --> 00:13:23,119 But that element 386 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:25,189 actually enabled us to have a 387 00:13:25,190 --> 00:13:26,989 bottom up approach as opposed to on the 388 00:13:26,990 --> 00:13:27,979 other side. 389 00:13:27,980 --> 00:13:30,319 You know, the people have been lobbying 390 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:32,569 for over a century in the US 391 00:13:32,570 --> 00:13:34,249 and around the world to get these types 392 00:13:34,250 --> 00:13:36,559 of laws passed did not have 393 00:13:36,560 --> 00:13:38,749 that strength in that base and 394 00:13:38,750 --> 00:13:40,819 that ability to have these bottom 395 00:13:40,820 --> 00:13:42,470 up movements. 396 00:13:43,940 --> 00:13:46,099 The media after the super 397 00:13:46,100 --> 00:13:48,319 protest love to say that it was Google 398 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:50,389 or that it was Silicon Valley executives 399 00:13:50,390 --> 00:13:51,379 who organized it. 400 00:13:51,380 --> 00:13:52,849 And frankly, you know, I was one of the 401 00:13:52,850 --> 00:13:54,349 main folks behind it. 402 00:13:54,350 --> 00:13:57,229 There were a core group of us, but 403 00:13:57,230 --> 00:13:58,129 we were not that. 404 00:13:58,130 --> 00:14:00,229 And of course, the media loves to create 405 00:14:00,230 --> 00:14:02,179 a very convenient story that it was just 406 00:14:02,180 --> 00:14:03,229 one big corporation. 407 00:14:03,230 --> 00:14:05,809 And it's not just about corporations 408 00:14:05,810 --> 00:14:07,279 sitting at a table and negotiating. 409 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,799 And until the internet users have a say 410 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:11,569 in the policy that will govern the very 411 00:14:11,570 --> 00:14:13,759 internet, we will not 412 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:15,049 accept anything less. 413 00:14:15,050 --> 00:14:17,359 So that's that's one thing that 414 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,509 the media more generally needs to learn 415 00:14:20,510 --> 00:14:22,909 about the internet. And another thing was 416 00:14:22,910 --> 00:14:25,249 that we as a movement had a big tent. 417 00:14:25,250 --> 00:14:27,079 We had everyone from Republicans or 418 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,389 Democrats to libertarians to 419 00:14:29,390 --> 00:14:31,459 the Tea Party, to the lefties, 420 00:14:31,460 --> 00:14:32,839 everyone in between. 421 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,209 We had DFA of Mozilla, 422 00:14:35,210 --> 00:14:37,099 Wikipedia, Tumblr, demand progress. 423 00:14:37,100 --> 00:14:38,479 We had VC startups. 424 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:40,369 This was also the first time that say an 425 00:14:40,370 --> 00:14:42,469 organization like Mozilla 426 00:14:42,470 --> 00:14:44,149 with hundreds of millions of users for 427 00:14:44,150 --> 00:14:46,279 their Firefox browser took a stance on 428 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:47,389 a policy issue. 429 00:14:47,390 --> 00:14:49,219 We really saw that tech companies that 430 00:14:49,220 --> 00:14:51,349 had felt strongly about these 431 00:14:51,350 --> 00:14:52,879 issues and beforehand but didn't 432 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:54,830 necessarily do anything about it finally 433 00:14:56,090 --> 00:14:58,279 took a step up and took action. 434 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:00,029 So that was incredibly beneficial. 435 00:15:00,030 --> 00:15:02,389 And then another major lesson 436 00:15:02,390 --> 00:15:04,039 was you can have all the money in the 437 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:05,779 world or not, really, but lots on the 438 00:15:05,780 --> 00:15:07,849 other side. But the ability for people to 439 00:15:07,850 --> 00:15:09,529 take action to do things like eight 440 00:15:09,530 --> 00:15:11,839 million calls to Congress and 441 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:13,369 10 million people, signed petitions and 442 00:15:13,370 --> 00:15:15,619 sent emails and whatnot really did 443 00:15:15,620 --> 00:15:16,729 make a difference. 444 00:15:16,730 --> 00:15:18,499 And while the other side, for example, 445 00:15:18,500 --> 00:15:20,779 spent nearly an order of magnitude 446 00:15:20,780 --> 00:15:22,969 almost 300 million over 447 00:15:22,970 --> 00:15:25,159 two years to lobby for 448 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:26,749 these bills, and the tech companies spent 449 00:15:26,750 --> 00:15:29,539 about, you know, 30, 450 00:15:29,540 --> 00:15:31,909 the ability to engage people really 451 00:15:31,910 --> 00:15:32,910 did make a difference 452 00:15:34,130 --> 00:15:35,089 and matter. 453 00:15:35,090 --> 00:15:37,069 So here we can see a variety of people 454 00:15:37,070 --> 00:15:39,859 that ended up stopping SOPA 455 00:15:39,860 --> 00:15:42,019 and what funding we did 456 00:15:42,020 --> 00:15:43,669 after all of this was. 457 00:15:43,670 --> 00:15:45,349 So Lamar Smith, the guy who was behind 458 00:15:45,350 --> 00:15:47,149 SOPA and fought to the very end for it 459 00:15:47,150 --> 00:15:48,109 was from Texas. 460 00:15:48,110 --> 00:15:50,839 And you guys may know this famous poster 461 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:52,579 well. A few of us got together to create 462 00:15:52,580 --> 00:15:54,979 a billboard that was actually in 463 00:15:54,980 --> 00:15:56,839 Lamar Smith's district to send the 464 00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:59,149 message to him and all sorts of people 465 00:15:59,150 --> 00:16:00,919 that he should not mess with the internet 466 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:02,570 because he will be sorry. 467 00:16:04,130 --> 00:16:06,199 So this brings us to the movement 468 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:08,869 against surveillance and the revelations 469 00:16:08,870 --> 00:16:10,729 with the NSA, in particular, the group 470 00:16:10,730 --> 00:16:13,129 stop watching us in which I'm involved. 471 00:16:13,130 --> 00:16:14,689 So I don't need to tell you guys you all 472 00:16:14,690 --> 00:16:16,099 know that. 473 00:16:16,100 --> 00:16:18,499 Earlier this year in June, a guy 474 00:16:18,500 --> 00:16:20,539 named Edward Snowden leaked some 475 00:16:20,540 --> 00:16:22,639 documents starting with 476 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:24,649 PRISM and then many others. 477 00:16:24,650 --> 00:16:26,839 And as a result, 478 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:28,819 a group of us, many of whom were involved 479 00:16:28,820 --> 00:16:30,679 in the anti-doping movement, formed a 480 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,019 coalition called Stop Watching US, 481 00:16:33,020 --> 00:16:35,629 Stop Watching US. 482 00:16:35,630 --> 00:16:37,969 We have over 483 00:16:37,970 --> 00:16:40,039 500 signatures, 484 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,109 500000 sorry signatures for 485 00:16:42,110 --> 00:16:44,629 our 501 B, the money for a petition, 486 00:16:44,630 --> 00:16:46,729 and we have groups ranging from again, 487 00:16:46,730 --> 00:16:48,319 demand programs to fight for the future. 488 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:50,509 If I thought it works, read it and 489 00:16:50,510 --> 00:16:52,369 many in between. 490 00:16:52,370 --> 00:16:53,959 And we see here what came out of it. 491 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,179 This is the awesome protest organized 492 00:16:56,180 --> 00:16:58,399 by folks when Obama visited Berlin 493 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,559 earlier this year, where they posed 494 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:02,809 as NSA surveillance and agents. 495 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:06,309 And we also have a group called Restore 496 00:17:06,310 --> 00:17:08,379 the Forth, which came out 497 00:17:08,380 --> 00:17:10,598 of the US in the wake 498 00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:12,699 of the Snowden revelations. 499 00:17:12,700 --> 00:17:14,799 They're specifically geared 500 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:16,719 toward restoring the Forcément Fourth 501 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:18,848 Amendment in the U.S., and 502 00:17:18,849 --> 00:17:21,249 they've held protests in over 70 503 00:17:21,250 --> 00:17:22,719 cities across the US. 504 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,059 They had over 10000 people on July 505 00:17:25,060 --> 00:17:27,789 4th and then thousands other 506 00:17:27,790 --> 00:17:30,729 thousands more on August 4th, 507 00:17:30,730 --> 00:17:33,069 and they've been involved in 508 00:17:33,070 --> 00:17:35,529 the kind of grassroots movement to 509 00:17:35,530 --> 00:17:37,959 protest NSA surveillance. 510 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,149 So earlier this summer, in July, a 511 00:17:40,150 --> 00:17:42,249 guy named Justin Amash 512 00:17:42,250 --> 00:17:43,899 out of Michigan, I'd never heard of him. 513 00:17:43,900 --> 00:17:45,549 He's a young, a libertarian and 514 00:17:45,550 --> 00:17:48,309 Republican congressperson decided 515 00:17:48,310 --> 00:17:49,689 he was fed up with the kind of 516 00:17:49,690 --> 00:17:51,249 surveillance that was going on and wanted 517 00:17:51,250 --> 00:17:52,749 to make a splash. 518 00:17:52,750 --> 00:17:55,659 So he proposed an amendment 519 00:17:55,660 --> 00:17:56,829 called the Amash Amendment, although 520 00:17:56,830 --> 00:17:58,389 there was also a guy named John Conyers 521 00:17:58,390 --> 00:18:00,759 co-sponsoring it that would defund 522 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:02,949 the NSA's mass 523 00:18:02,950 --> 00:18:04,359 surveillance of at least U.S. 524 00:18:04,360 --> 00:18:06,159 citizens in the metadata collection 525 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,409 operating under Section 215. 526 00:18:08,410 --> 00:18:10,149 So some of us involved and stop watching 527 00:18:10,150 --> 00:18:11,679 us find out about this and we decided we 528 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:13,689 were going to organize naturally a 529 00:18:13,690 --> 00:18:15,819 movement to support the amendment. 530 00:18:15,820 --> 00:18:18,339 So basically, within twenty four hours, 531 00:18:18,340 --> 00:18:20,679 we were able to throw aside a guy named 532 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:22,569 Antifa, put up an amazing site called 533 00:18:22,570 --> 00:18:23,650 Defund the NSA, 534 00:18:25,060 --> 00:18:27,789 and we were able to engage 15000 535 00:18:27,790 --> 00:18:29,889 people and calling Congress 536 00:18:29,890 --> 00:18:32,109 within 24 hours with this 537 00:18:32,110 --> 00:18:33,609 kind of movement again. In many ways, it 538 00:18:33,610 --> 00:18:35,619 was a mini SOPA of sorts. 539 00:18:35,620 --> 00:18:37,749 And really, knowing that people can 540 00:18:37,750 --> 00:18:39,249 make a difference that one call could 541 00:18:39,250 --> 00:18:41,649 actually sway somebody on this issue 542 00:18:41,650 --> 00:18:44,109 is essential for people to take action. 543 00:18:44,110 --> 00:18:46,179 As you can see in this tweet, I tweeted 544 00:18:46,180 --> 00:18:48,489 here. And in the end, 545 00:18:48,490 --> 00:18:50,619 although it only failed by 546 00:18:50,620 --> 00:18:52,749 seven votes, we were incredibly close 547 00:18:52,750 --> 00:18:54,489 and we saw things like the Obama 548 00:18:54,490 --> 00:18:56,709 administration issued a statement 549 00:18:56,710 --> 00:18:58,449 against the amendment, which is very rare 550 00:18:58,450 --> 00:19:00,039 because this was not even a bill that was 551 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,739 just an amendment to a bill, 552 00:19:02,740 --> 00:19:03,639 which meant that they were really 553 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:05,799 worried. And the NSA actually set 554 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:07,749 up lobbying sessions to one for the 555 00:19:07,750 --> 00:19:09,609 Democrats and one for the Republicans to 556 00:19:09,610 --> 00:19:11,049 lobby against the amendment. 557 00:19:11,050 --> 00:19:12,819 So basically, Washington woke up and 558 00:19:12,820 --> 00:19:14,799 realized that they were in danger and 559 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:15,999 that we were going to get something 560 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:17,829 passed. So even though it failed by a 561 00:19:17,830 --> 00:19:19,989 mere seven votes, it was actually 562 00:19:19,990 --> 00:19:22,929 a victory as far as we were concerned. 563 00:19:22,930 --> 00:19:23,919 And with the movement against 564 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,799 surveillance we've also seen means 565 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:27,849 much like with SOPA. 566 00:19:27,850 --> 00:19:30,189 So here's the NSA coloring 567 00:19:30,190 --> 00:19:32,319 book we're hey kids, you can fill 568 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:33,969 out your information and send it directly 569 00:19:33,970 --> 00:19:34,970 to the NSA, 570 00:19:36,070 --> 00:19:38,169 or you can see where 571 00:19:38,170 --> 00:19:39,609 all of your data is and all your friends 572 00:19:39,610 --> 00:19:40,610 are. 573 00:19:41,050 --> 00:19:42,669 We also have a line that our fight for 574 00:19:42,670 --> 00:19:44,109 the future send up. If you want to call 575 00:19:44,110 --> 00:19:46,359 to stop the NSA directly. 576 00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:48,129 Here's a phone line. 577 00:19:48,130 --> 00:19:50,379 And then on October 578 00:19:50,380 --> 00:19:52,689 26th of this past year, the 12th 579 00:19:52,690 --> 00:19:54,819 anniversary of the Patriot Act, the 580 00:19:54,820 --> 00:19:56,949 Stop Watching US Coalition organized 581 00:19:56,950 --> 00:19:58,809 a protest against surveillance, a rally 582 00:19:58,810 --> 00:20:00,939 against surveillance where we had people 583 00:20:00,940 --> 00:20:03,009 like Bruce Schneier, Rep. 584 00:20:03,010 --> 00:20:05,319 Justin Amash, Dennis Kucinich 585 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:07,599 was also a rubber representative, folks 586 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:09,849 from the EFL, from ACLU and 587 00:20:09,850 --> 00:20:11,079 many others. 588 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:12,489 Speak up. We also had a statement from 589 00:20:12,490 --> 00:20:14,709 Edward Snowden, and this 590 00:20:14,710 --> 00:20:16,929 was that garnered thousands of people 591 00:20:16,930 --> 00:20:18,909 and was considered a significant success 592 00:20:18,910 --> 00:20:20,169 for those in you and Germany. 593 00:20:20,170 --> 00:20:21,369 You had the 594 00:20:22,690 --> 00:20:25,539 freedom, not fear rally in September, 595 00:20:25,540 --> 00:20:27,669 which I understand had some 10000 596 00:20:27,670 --> 00:20:29,139 odd people. 597 00:20:29,140 --> 00:20:30,039 20000. 598 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,139 OK, yeah, it depends on the 599 00:20:32,140 --> 00:20:34,179 on the account, but had tens of thousands 600 00:20:34,180 --> 00:20:35,799 of people protesting in the street 601 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:37,270 against surveillance. 602 00:20:38,500 --> 00:20:40,749 And now in the US, we 603 00:20:40,750 --> 00:20:43,029 have actually a bill by the author 604 00:20:43,030 --> 00:20:44,859 of the Patriot Act, Jim Sensenbrenner 605 00:20:44,860 --> 00:20:46,959 called the USA Freedom Act 606 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,179 after the Snowden revelations. 607 00:20:49,180 --> 00:20:51,369 We actually have had 30 some odd bills 608 00:20:51,370 --> 00:20:53,559 proposed in Congress, and 609 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:55,659 this is the one that a lot of people 610 00:20:55,660 --> 00:20:57,279 have gotten behind, particularly in our 611 00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,439 community, because it has fairly 612 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,019 sweeping changes. 613 00:21:02,020 --> 00:21:04,209 And we now in January, 614 00:21:04,210 --> 00:21:06,369 in fact, to commemorate the 615 00:21:06,370 --> 00:21:08,229 anniversary of the movement against SOPA 616 00:21:08,230 --> 00:21:10,449 and the passing of our dear friend Aaron 617 00:21:10,450 --> 00:21:11,619 Swartz. 618 00:21:11,620 --> 00:21:13,749 We are organizing a major movement in 619 00:21:13,750 --> 00:21:15,009 support of this bill. 620 00:21:15,010 --> 00:21:17,019 So the bill would do things like end mass 621 00:21:17,020 --> 00:21:19,489 surveillance, require transparency on 622 00:21:19,490 --> 00:21:21,519 the part of the FISA court, on the part 623 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,259 of the companies that are getting 624 00:21:23,260 --> 00:21:24,549 surveillance requests on the part of the 625 00:21:24,550 --> 00:21:26,979 government to 626 00:21:26,980 --> 00:21:28,089 announce how many people that they're 627 00:21:28,090 --> 00:21:29,589 actually surveilling. 628 00:21:29,590 --> 00:21:32,019 It would require that 629 00:21:32,020 --> 00:21:34,389 a court order be used for 630 00:21:34,390 --> 00:21:36,669 US citizen surveillance 631 00:21:36,670 --> 00:21:38,799 from foreign courts in a variety 632 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:39,939 of other things now. 633 00:21:39,940 --> 00:21:42,399 One thing that we as a movement in the US 634 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,559 do you realize is a lot of this is really 635 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:45,549 on the basis of U.S. 636 00:21:45,550 --> 00:21:47,649 domestic citizens, and we need to do more 637 00:21:47,650 --> 00:21:49,569 and we'll do more on behalf of the 638 00:21:49,570 --> 00:21:50,649 international issues. 639 00:21:50,650 --> 00:21:52,779 In fact, just in the past 640 00:21:52,780 --> 00:21:54,639 few weeks, there was a commission 641 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:56,769 appointed by President Obama 642 00:21:56,770 --> 00:21:58,869 to overhaul 643 00:21:58,870 --> 00:22:00,639 the NSA surveillance process. 644 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,499 And frankly, this commission had five 645 00:22:02,500 --> 00:22:03,799 people on the. 646 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:05,179 And they were basically considered to be 647 00:22:05,180 --> 00:22:06,709 Obama's friends and buddies, and, you 648 00:22:06,710 --> 00:22:07,729 know, no one thought they were going to 649 00:22:07,730 --> 00:22:09,199 do anything radical, in fact. 650 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:10,819 One of the members had written so much as 651 00:22:10,820 --> 00:22:12,379 wouldn't it be great if we could surveil 652 00:22:12,380 --> 00:22:13,699 people's minds and knew what their 653 00:22:13,700 --> 00:22:14,839 thoughts were? Well, that would be really 654 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:16,579 useful and knowing who had, you know, 655 00:22:16,580 --> 00:22:19,549 possibly commit a terrorist attack. 656 00:22:19,550 --> 00:22:22,399 But apparently, Obama was shocked 657 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,499 by the contents of this report because 658 00:22:24,500 --> 00:22:26,599 it has over 300 pages, and he's bringing 659 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:28,999 it with him to Hawaii to read over the 660 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,309 holiday break and 661 00:22:31,310 --> 00:22:33,799 contained recommendations along the lines 662 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,079 of again appointing a public advocate 663 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,149 to the FISA court to give 664 00:22:38,150 --> 00:22:40,339 foreign citizens rights under the 665 00:22:40,340 --> 00:22:43,579 US Privacy Act of 1974 666 00:22:43,580 --> 00:22:45,229 and then changing the way that metadata 667 00:22:45,230 --> 00:22:47,269 is collected, they would like it to be in 668 00:22:47,270 --> 00:22:49,639 the hands of private 669 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,949 organizations. We as a movement wouldn't 670 00:22:51,950 --> 00:22:54,499 accept that we want it to stop 671 00:22:54,500 --> 00:22:55,699 full stop. 672 00:22:55,700 --> 00:22:58,009 It also includes recommendations 673 00:22:58,010 --> 00:22:59,390 along the lines of 674 00:23:01,430 --> 00:23:03,229 engaging sorry. 675 00:23:03,230 --> 00:23:05,359 It also includes recommendations 676 00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:07,789 for people to 677 00:23:07,790 --> 00:23:09,979 with regard to encryption and 678 00:23:09,980 --> 00:23:12,289 zero days and whatnot to actually 679 00:23:12,290 --> 00:23:13,999 not allow the government to keep those 680 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,369 without notifying corporations 681 00:23:16,370 --> 00:23:18,439 and actually compromise the security of 682 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,419 a variety of individuals. 683 00:23:20,420 --> 00:23:22,519 So in the end, I don't need to tell you 684 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:23,989 guys this, but Lawrence Lessig, the 685 00:23:23,990 --> 00:23:26,059 famous legal academic, has 686 00:23:26,060 --> 00:23:27,949 stated that code is law. 687 00:23:27,950 --> 00:23:29,629 And really, even if there's law on the 688 00:23:29,630 --> 00:23:30,630 books, 689 00:23:32,030 --> 00:23:33,709 it's really code in the technology. 690 00:23:33,710 --> 00:23:35,629 What's possible with technology can 691 00:23:35,630 --> 00:23:37,219 supersede what's possible in the law, and 692 00:23:37,220 --> 00:23:38,749 we've seen this with a lot of the 693 00:23:38,750 --> 00:23:41,329 revelations around, for example, loveand 694 00:23:41,330 --> 00:23:43,459 if any people heard about that where 695 00:23:43,460 --> 00:23:45,559 people in the NSA were were actually 696 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:47,299 using the surveillance capabilities to 697 00:23:47,300 --> 00:23:48,589 find out, you know what the people they 698 00:23:48,590 --> 00:23:50,479 have a crush on are doing right because 699 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,549 that's the kind of thing we should allow. 700 00:23:52,550 --> 00:23:54,649 So we, as a community need to step 701 00:23:54,650 --> 00:23:56,479 up. And last night, with the year in 702 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,009 crypto, we heard this, you know, over and 703 00:23:58,010 --> 00:24:00,829 over again, crypto needs to be usable. 704 00:24:00,830 --> 00:24:02,569 So one thing that I feel very strongly 705 00:24:02,570 --> 00:24:04,969 about and we as a movement do is that 706 00:24:04,970 --> 00:24:07,189 we need to be able to engage 707 00:24:07,190 --> 00:24:08,539 in communication without being 708 00:24:08,540 --> 00:24:10,069 surveilled, and there are technological 709 00:24:10,070 --> 00:24:11,899 means that can enable us to do that. 710 00:24:11,900 --> 00:24:14,089 So I invite you and all 711 00:24:14,090 --> 00:24:16,459 of us as a community to design tools 712 00:24:16,460 --> 00:24:18,049 that you know, my mom and your 713 00:24:18,050 --> 00:24:19,819 grandparents and everyone can actually 714 00:24:19,820 --> 00:24:21,979 use and whereby they will 715 00:24:21,980 --> 00:24:24,289 not be surveilled. 716 00:24:26,090 --> 00:24:28,039 And ultimately, what this comes down to 717 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:29,779 is a broader question of the freedom 718 00:24:29,780 --> 00:24:31,549 versus the control of information. 719 00:24:31,550 --> 00:24:33,799 And we've seen within this movement 720 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:35,989 people like the RIAA, the MPAA and with, 721 00:24:35,990 --> 00:24:38,509 for example, the 722 00:24:38,510 --> 00:24:40,399 surveillance movement. 723 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,349 We are up against something even broader, 724 00:24:42,350 --> 00:24:43,399 even bigger. 725 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,319 It's a huge governmental complex. 726 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:46,519 You know, they have billions upon 727 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:48,589 billions of dollars. They had political 728 00:24:48,590 --> 00:24:50,209 support. You know, they have a massive 729 00:24:50,210 --> 00:24:52,669 data center in Utah, whereas 730 00:24:52,670 --> 00:24:54,949 we we have, you know, the internet, some 731 00:24:54,950 --> 00:24:57,949 technologists and a whole lot of people. 732 00:24:57,950 --> 00:24:59,809 But in the end, I strongly believe that 733 00:24:59,810 --> 00:25:02,069 we as a community will win out 734 00:25:02,070 --> 00:25:05,239 and it is our imperative and prerogative 735 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,209 as a group to ensure that this happens. 736 00:25:08,210 --> 00:25:10,309 This fight is not one that 737 00:25:10,310 --> 00:25:12,409 is going to come easily to 738 00:25:12,410 --> 00:25:14,629 us. But I do think with the combination 739 00:25:14,630 --> 00:25:16,579 of building better technology, enabling 740 00:25:16,580 --> 00:25:18,739 people to communicate more securely 741 00:25:18,740 --> 00:25:20,959 in an encrypted manner and engaging not 742 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,479 only in the US, but around the world 743 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,129 on these policy issues and political 744 00:25:25,130 --> 00:25:27,499 issues. By protesting, by contacting 745 00:25:27,500 --> 00:25:30,409 people in parliament, 746 00:25:30,410 --> 00:25:32,299 by really letting people know that this 747 00:25:32,300 --> 00:25:34,489 matters and that we care, that ultimately 748 00:25:34,490 --> 00:25:36,499 we, the people that are supporting the 749 00:25:36,500 --> 00:25:38,210 freedom of information, will win out. 750 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,150 And that is it. Thank you very much. 751 00:25:48,110 --> 00:25:49,110 Questions. 752 00:25:51,570 --> 00:25:52,799 We are having the session tomorrow 753 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:54,689 about stop octopus import. 754 00:25:54,690 --> 00:25:55,679 Yeah. 755 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:56,859 OK. 756 00:25:56,860 --> 00:25:59,189 And even though we're 757 00:25:59,190 --> 00:26:01,349 kind of at the end of the time, I 758 00:26:01,350 --> 00:26:02,489 don't know some question, I 759 00:26:02,490 --> 00:26:04,019 definitely left time for questions. 760 00:26:04,020 --> 00:26:06,359 Yes, I definitely will 761 00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:07,259 allow questions. 762 00:26:07,260 --> 00:26:09,059 And by the way, check out Stop Watching 763 00:26:09,060 --> 00:26:10,859 US and demand progress at Orig, an 764 00:26:10,860 --> 00:26:12,689 organization that I am on the board of 765 00:26:12,690 --> 00:26:14,639 that has been very active on these 766 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:15,569 issues. 767 00:26:15,570 --> 00:26:17,429 We've got four microphones in the room 768 00:26:17,430 --> 00:26:20,279 and we've got a signal angel 769 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,649 who takes questions from the internet. 770 00:26:22,650 --> 00:26:24,869 Yes, the first question, please. 771 00:26:24,870 --> 00:26:26,159 OK. 772 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,319 I have a question about the role 773 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,019 of ALEC in 774 00:26:31,020 --> 00:26:33,569 designing the laws that then 775 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,359 the lobbying on the corporate side 776 00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:38,939 surround the American Legislative 777 00:26:38,940 --> 00:26:40,709 Exchange Council. 778 00:26:40,710 --> 00:26:42,869 Because from what 779 00:26:42,870 --> 00:26:45,959 I understand, there are politicians 780 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,839 and corporate lobbyists getting together 781 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,359 a building prototype laws. 782 00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:53,489 And I've recently found 783 00:26:53,490 --> 00:26:55,709 out that even a number of members of 784 00:26:55,710 --> 00:26:57,809 the European Parliament 785 00:26:57,810 --> 00:27:00,299 are organized in ALEC 786 00:27:00,300 --> 00:27:02,399 to push these things on both 787 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:03,899 sides of the Atlantic. 788 00:27:03,900 --> 00:27:05,999 And what we're very concerned about is 789 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,099 that this is going to be used in 790 00:27:08,100 --> 00:27:10,589 the free trade negotiations 791 00:27:10,590 --> 00:27:12,179 between the US. 792 00:27:12,180 --> 00:27:13,679 That a lot of the things that we 793 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,169 accomplished as citizens because 794 00:27:16,170 --> 00:27:18,479 we have a somewhat functioning democracy 795 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,549 still in Europe are going to 796 00:27:20,550 --> 00:27:22,619 be undermined in these free 797 00:27:22,620 --> 00:27:25,289 trade things. 798 00:27:25,290 --> 00:27:27,209 I think we need to share. 799 00:27:27,210 --> 00:27:29,579 So I don't know that much about ALEC, but 800 00:27:29,580 --> 00:27:30,989 more generally you make a very good 801 00:27:30,990 --> 00:27:33,089 point. Right now, there's a law in the 802 00:27:33,090 --> 00:27:35,009 US. While more internationally called the 803 00:27:35,010 --> 00:27:36,899 Trans-Pacific Partnership, a trade 804 00:27:36,900 --> 00:27:39,119 agreement that was 805 00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:41,189 for many years 806 00:27:41,190 --> 00:27:43,229 not made public at all was completely 807 00:27:43,230 --> 00:27:45,089 nontransparent, which, by the way, we as 808 00:27:45,090 --> 00:27:47,789 citizens do not accept 809 00:27:47,790 --> 00:27:49,019 the fact that our governments are 810 00:27:49,020 --> 00:27:50,999 negotiating internationally on these 811 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,279 issues on behalf of us and not making any 812 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,289 of it transparent and then letting 813 00:27:55,290 --> 00:27:57,389 corporations, you know, view 814 00:27:57,390 --> 00:27:58,859 what the law is going to be and what the 815 00:27:58,860 --> 00:28:00,119 agreements are going to be, but not the 816 00:28:00,120 --> 00:28:01,649 citizens and the very people that will be 817 00:28:01,650 --> 00:28:03,719 regulated. It's still shocking to me 818 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:05,879 how people and specifically the U.S. 819 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:07,169 government is getting away with this kind 820 00:28:07,170 --> 00:28:09,059 of thing. But go on. Yeah, yeah. 821 00:28:09,060 --> 00:28:11,579 Well, if you're not familiar with ALEC, 822 00:28:11,580 --> 00:28:13,379 maybe offline, I can tell you a little 823 00:28:13,380 --> 00:28:14,549 bit about it. 824 00:28:14,550 --> 00:28:16,259 There is actually an organization in the 825 00:28:16,260 --> 00:28:18,389 U.S. that is of publishing internal 826 00:28:18,390 --> 00:28:19,439 documents. 827 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,599 And for several of 828 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:23,489 these things that we are concerned of as 829 00:28:23,490 --> 00:28:25,469 citizens, they have published the 830 00:28:25,470 --> 00:28:27,629 prototype legislation that 831 00:28:27,630 --> 00:28:30,329 then is being introduced 832 00:28:30,330 --> 00:28:31,919 in the states. 833 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:33,479 So this is something that's widespread in 834 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:34,949 the U.S., and I know that it happens 835 00:28:34,950 --> 00:28:35,909 internationally as well. 836 00:28:35,910 --> 00:28:37,409 But effectively what you have and this 837 00:28:37,410 --> 00:28:38,909 also happened with SOPA is that there are 838 00:28:38,910 --> 00:28:41,279 lobbying groups funded, not surprisingly, 839 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:42,749 by big corporations that want to see 840 00:28:42,750 --> 00:28:45,329 these laws passed that effectively hand 841 00:28:45,330 --> 00:28:47,879 the laws over to Congress people. 842 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:49,889 Lawrence Lessig, again, if you guys are 843 00:28:49,890 --> 00:28:51,959 familiar with his work, has now shifted 844 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,029 to addressing this issue of corruption in 845 00:28:54,030 --> 00:28:55,030 Congress. 846 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,289 And and then people will 847 00:28:58,290 --> 00:28:59,909 introduce the law that was written by the 848 00:28:59,910 --> 00:29:02,189 lobbyists that had zero input from, 849 00:29:02,190 --> 00:29:04,259 say, the internet community whatsoever 850 00:29:04,260 --> 00:29:06,299 into law. So this is a widespread problem 851 00:29:06,300 --> 00:29:07,709 that it sounds like ALEC is involved 852 00:29:07,710 --> 00:29:08,159 with. 853 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,229 Yeah. And in Europe and the European 854 00:29:10,230 --> 00:29:11,699 Parliament, we need to watch it there, 855 00:29:11,700 --> 00:29:12,629 too. 856 00:29:12,630 --> 00:29:13,769 Thank you. 857 00:29:13,770 --> 00:29:15,719 Do we have another question? 858 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:17,609 Questions from the internet? 859 00:29:17,610 --> 00:29:19,499 We have two questions from the internet. 860 00:29:19,500 --> 00:29:21,809 The first one is do you have like 861 00:29:21,810 --> 00:29:24,089 an abstract formula for 862 00:29:24,090 --> 00:29:25,799 winning the next battles? 863 00:29:29,190 --> 00:29:30,719 That would be awesome, but I mean, 864 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,089 effectively, those five points, right, 865 00:29:33,090 --> 00:29:35,669 that I mentioned in my talk. 866 00:29:35,670 --> 00:29:37,439 So giving people something to wrap their 867 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,779 heads around is incredibly important. 868 00:29:39,780 --> 00:29:41,729 For example, with SOPA for years, we had 869 00:29:41,730 --> 00:29:42,809 said we need to protect the open 870 00:29:42,810 --> 00:29:44,219 internet. But until there was a bill that 871 00:29:44,220 --> 00:29:46,169 threatened that, it was harder, I think, 872 00:29:46,170 --> 00:29:48,029 for people to organize and come together 873 00:29:48,030 --> 00:29:49,529 and take action. Similarly, with 874 00:29:49,530 --> 00:29:51,449 surveillance for years, people in the 875 00:29:51,450 --> 00:29:52,709 movement knew that we were being 876 00:29:52,710 --> 00:29:54,299 surveilled and they banned as they knew 877 00:29:54,300 --> 00:29:56,339 everything. But it wasn't until Snowden 878 00:29:56,340 --> 00:29:57,989 leaked his documents that people really 879 00:29:57,990 --> 00:30:00,089 had something more tangible that they 880 00:30:00,090 --> 00:30:01,949 could address. So that's certainly 881 00:30:01,950 --> 00:30:04,409 important than having a kind of deadline 882 00:30:04,410 --> 00:30:06,629 having a rallying cry, 883 00:30:06,630 --> 00:30:08,999 something where people can anticipate 884 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,009 the deadline and get involved, and then 885 00:30:11,010 --> 00:30:13,349 also enabling people to know that their 886 00:30:13,350 --> 00:30:15,659 action can make a difference, which 887 00:30:15,660 --> 00:30:16,619 I think what SOPA? 888 00:30:16,620 --> 00:30:18,449 We saw that millions of people called 889 00:30:18,450 --> 00:30:20,279 Congress and then we actually stopped it, 890 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,829 which was effective. So in January, 891 00:30:22,830 --> 00:30:24,539 our hope is that we can use this formula 892 00:30:24,540 --> 00:30:26,909 and model again to make a big difference 893 00:30:26,910 --> 00:30:28,319 in getting a law passed, which, by the 894 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,509 way, something that people criticized 895 00:30:30,510 --> 00:30:31,589 us or mentioned. 896 00:30:31,590 --> 00:30:32,579 And I agree with this and the SOPA 897 00:30:32,580 --> 00:30:34,649 movement is it's easy to say no, you 898 00:30:34,650 --> 00:30:36,029 can always say no to something, but what 899 00:30:36,030 --> 00:30:38,129 about engaging a more proactive 900 00:30:38,130 --> 00:30:40,079 effort? So in this case, we're trying to 901 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,149 say yes to a bill and get it passed 902 00:30:42,150 --> 00:30:44,789 and have significant reform 903 00:30:44,790 --> 00:30:45,790 in that capacity. 904 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:48,559 Next question for the next one. 905 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:49,639 Yes. 906 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,309 So the next one is on the NSA 907 00:30:52,310 --> 00:30:54,439 and the support from the 908 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:55,549 American or U.S. 909 00:30:55,550 --> 00:30:57,019 American community. 910 00:30:57,020 --> 00:30:59,089 So if you get behind the ball from the 911 00:30:59,090 --> 00:31:01,339 father of the Patriot Act, that only 912 00:31:01,340 --> 00:31:02,539 protects U.S. 913 00:31:02,540 --> 00:31:05,029 citizens once you lose the majority 914 00:31:05,030 --> 00:31:07,189 of supporters as it is good enough 915 00:31:07,190 --> 00:31:08,389 for the U.S. 916 00:31:08,390 --> 00:31:10,429 and like, does the typical U.S. 917 00:31:10,430 --> 00:31:12,739 citizen care enough about spying 918 00:31:12,740 --> 00:31:14,659 on the rest of the world? 919 00:31:14,660 --> 00:31:16,219 So that's a great question, and that's a 920 00:31:16,220 --> 00:31:17,629 debate that we've certainly had within 921 00:31:17,630 --> 00:31:19,489 our community because all of us care 922 00:31:19,490 --> 00:31:21,619 about this not only from the domestic 923 00:31:21,620 --> 00:31:23,329 standpoint, but clearly on an 924 00:31:23,330 --> 00:31:24,439 international standpoint. 925 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,509 And if we could only get reform where 926 00:31:26,510 --> 00:31:27,949 U.S. citizens are not surveilled but the 927 00:31:27,950 --> 00:31:30,199 rest of the world still is, then 928 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,359 we won't have really accomplished 929 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:33,859 all that much. That said, 930 00:31:34,910 --> 00:31:36,319 there's a debate as to whether we should 931 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,659 go for an approach where we will stop 932 00:31:38,660 --> 00:31:40,519 surveillance wholesale throughout the 933 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:42,229 entire world or whether it's better to 934 00:31:42,230 --> 00:31:44,269 stop surveillance domestically first. 935 00:31:44,270 --> 00:31:45,979 And I am of the mind and I think a 936 00:31:45,980 --> 00:31:47,689 variety of us in the movement that 937 00:31:47,690 --> 00:31:49,369 getting a bill like this passed, which by 938 00:31:49,370 --> 00:31:51,559 the way, the USA Freedom Act now has over 939 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:53,059 100 co-sponsors, would have been 940 00:31:53,060 --> 00:31:55,609 completely unthinkable prior 941 00:31:55,610 --> 00:31:57,709 to Snowden's revelations 942 00:31:57,710 --> 00:31:59,629 would actually be a huge step because it 943 00:31:59,630 --> 00:32:01,339 would show Congress that we are not 944 00:32:01,340 --> 00:32:02,449 willing to accept this kind of 945 00:32:02,450 --> 00:32:03,739 surveillance. 946 00:32:03,740 --> 00:32:05,209 There are other people in the community 947 00:32:05,210 --> 00:32:07,429 that want something that's even broader. 948 00:32:07,430 --> 00:32:09,529 But we we've chosen to take a pragmatic 949 00:32:09,530 --> 00:32:11,629 approach and one where this 950 00:32:11,630 --> 00:32:13,849 is a stepping stone to the kind of reform 951 00:32:13,850 --> 00:32:14,929 that we want to see. 952 00:32:14,930 --> 00:32:16,129 And by the way, the fact that the 953 00:32:16,130 --> 00:32:18,079 presidential commission even said that 954 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:19,819 non-U.S. citizens should be given privacy 955 00:32:19,820 --> 00:32:21,859 protections is huge because Americans 956 00:32:21,860 --> 00:32:24,019 apparently don't seem to care very much 957 00:32:24,020 --> 00:32:25,849 about people outside of the US and the 958 00:32:25,850 --> 00:32:27,169 rest of the world. 959 00:32:27,170 --> 00:32:29,449 So we certainly want to see 960 00:32:29,450 --> 00:32:31,219 that kind of reform passed. 961 00:32:31,220 --> 00:32:34,279 But we acknowledge that we need to 962 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,559 have certain steps before making 963 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:37,560 it a broader. 964 00:32:39,290 --> 00:32:42,080 So any other questions? 965 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:45,480 Wow, that's. 966 00:32:47,250 --> 00:32:48,250 One last, one more. 967 00:32:50,610 --> 00:32:52,559 I think that's the fundamental difference 968 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,869 between the SOPA PIPA protests and the 969 00:32:54,870 --> 00:32:57,149 post-Snowden protests 970 00:32:57,150 --> 00:32:59,999 because SOPA people was about stopping 971 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,009 something from breaking the internet, so 972 00:33:02,010 --> 00:33:03,010 to speak. 973 00:33:03,510 --> 00:33:05,069 So there was a sense of urgency. 974 00:33:05,070 --> 00:33:08,039 If we don't act by that day, 975 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,469 we will lose everything we had. 976 00:33:10,470 --> 00:33:11,789 The Snowden situation is completely 977 00:33:11,790 --> 00:33:12,689 different. 978 00:33:12,690 --> 00:33:14,429 It's been going on for years. 979 00:33:14,430 --> 00:33:15,509 That's OK. 980 00:33:15,510 --> 00:33:17,759 That's this Sensenbrenner stuff 981 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,219 and another image and so on. 982 00:33:20,220 --> 00:33:22,469 But this, in a way, no 983 00:33:22,470 --> 00:33:23,589 clear deadline. 984 00:33:23,590 --> 00:33:25,619 There's no sense of urgency for people 985 00:33:25,620 --> 00:33:27,749 to. That's exactly 986 00:33:27,750 --> 00:33:29,549 what state we will lose everything 987 00:33:29,550 --> 00:33:31,079 because we've already lost everything. 988 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:32,169 We have to get it back. 989 00:33:32,170 --> 00:33:33,059 So that's one. 990 00:33:33,060 --> 00:33:34,409 Just a remark. 991 00:33:34,410 --> 00:33:36,599 My question is whether on the role 992 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:38,729 of private companies and 993 00:33:38,730 --> 00:33:40,769 so far, people, as far as I understand, 994 00:33:40,770 --> 00:33:42,929 Google, for example, played quite a big 995 00:33:42,930 --> 00:33:44,670 role and also 996 00:33:45,990 --> 00:33:48,599 providing resources and so on for the 997 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:50,669 phone call stuff and whatever. 998 00:33:50,670 --> 00:33:52,799 No, OK, that's what I thought. 999 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:54,869 Maybe you can put up on these 1000 00:33:54,870 --> 00:33:56,609 companies involved in the. 1001 00:33:56,610 --> 00:33:58,769 That's a good comment as a activities 1002 00:33:58,770 --> 00:33:59,159 at the moment 1003 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:00,479 to her comments, the reason why we're 1004 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,399 organizing this big day of action in 1005 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,589 January for the USA Freedom Act 1006 00:34:04,590 --> 00:34:06,449 is exactly that. It's to create this kind 1007 00:34:06,450 --> 00:34:07,919 of urgency. 1008 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,169 And even though we don't even know 1009 00:34:10,170 --> 00:34:11,339 when the bill will go into committee and 1010 00:34:11,340 --> 00:34:13,319 get passed, so we're aware of that, 1011 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:14,638 that's a great question about the role of 1012 00:34:14,639 --> 00:34:16,529 private companies with SOPA. 1013 00:34:16,530 --> 00:34:18,149 We did have Google on board. 1014 00:34:18,150 --> 00:34:19,799 We had a lot of technology companies, 1015 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,169 even Mark Zuckerberg tweeted, 1016 00:34:22,170 --> 00:34:23,879 you know, in support of the protests. 1017 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:25,948 So against SOPA itself. 1018 00:34:25,949 --> 00:34:27,869 We haven't necessarily had the same 1019 00:34:27,870 --> 00:34:29,428 actually in the movement against 1020 00:34:29,429 --> 00:34:31,678 surveillance. And my theory is because 1021 00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:33,869 this doesn't as directly 1022 00:34:33,870 --> 00:34:36,029 impact a lot of the technology 1023 00:34:36,030 --> 00:34:37,468 companies, although we have seen 1024 00:34:37,469 --> 00:34:38,819 recently. A few weeks ago there was a 1025 00:34:38,820 --> 00:34:40,888 letter from Facebook, Google, 1026 00:34:40,889 --> 00:34:43,169 Microsoft and a variety of other major 1027 00:34:43,170 --> 00:34:45,448 tech companies stating that this 1028 00:34:45,449 --> 00:34:46,799 could hurt their business, and there were 1029 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:48,899 reports that U.S. 1030 00:34:48,900 --> 00:34:50,549 Cloud and other tech companies could lose 1031 00:34:50,550 --> 00:34:53,339 over thirty five billion in sales 1032 00:34:53,340 --> 00:34:54,718 in the next two years. 1033 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:56,999 But we haven't actually seen as much 1034 00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,159 of involvement would 1035 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:00,449 say, but there are lots of VCs and 1036 00:35:00,450 --> 00:35:02,549 investors involved, and we haven't 1037 00:35:02,550 --> 00:35:04,859 had that here, but we can do it without 1038 00:35:04,860 --> 00:35:06,509 them and hopefully they'll get involved 1039 00:35:06,510 --> 00:35:07,739 as well. But you're right that there 1040 00:35:07,740 --> 00:35:09,869 there has not been this kind of 1041 00:35:09,870 --> 00:35:11,309 involvement on their behalf. 1042 00:35:12,420 --> 00:35:13,829 That said, we do have read it and thought 1043 00:35:13,830 --> 00:35:15,599 works and other great companies involved 1044 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:16,639 and stop watching us. 1045 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,549 Oh, well, thank you very much. 1046 00:35:20,550 --> 00:35:20,999 Thank you. 1047 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:22,199 We've run out of time.