0 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:30,000 Dear viewer, these subtitles were generated by a machine via the service Trint and therefore are (very) buggy. If you are capable, please help us to create good quality subtitles: https://c3subtitles.de/talk/927 Thanks! 1 00:00:15,450 --> 00:00:18,089 It is my deepest conviction 2 00:00:18,090 --> 00:00:20,339 that in order to not lose the war 3 00:00:20,340 --> 00:00:22,409 against Secret Service services, 4 00:00:22,410 --> 00:00:24,389 pushing for more and more surveillance 5 00:00:24,390 --> 00:00:26,519 laws all over Europe and all over the 6 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:28,920 world, we need events like this 7 00:00:30,210 --> 00:00:32,429 to connect, to share and 8 00:00:32,430 --> 00:00:34,649 also to support initiatives. 9 00:00:36,500 --> 00:00:38,809 That fight for girls, but 10 00:00:38,810 --> 00:00:40,780 really worth fighting for 11 00:00:42,020 --> 00:00:44,389 and the next speaker did 12 00:00:44,390 --> 00:00:46,459 something really, really 13 00:00:46,460 --> 00:00:48,679 impressive together with friends. 14 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:50,939 She built an alliance against 15 00:00:50,940 --> 00:00:52,909 the surveillance law in the Netherlands. 16 00:00:54,070 --> 00:00:57,939 And they collected more than 400000 17 00:00:57,940 --> 00:01:00,249 signatures and the next step 18 00:01:00,250 --> 00:01:03,339 will be to start a referendum. 19 00:01:03,340 --> 00:01:05,529 I'm really impressed and I hope 20 00:01:05,530 --> 00:01:06,639 you are, too. 21 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:08,919 Please give a very, very warm 22 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,289 applause to Nina 23 00:01:11,290 --> 00:01:12,290 now, Paulson's. 24 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:20,880 And 25 00:01:22,010 --> 00:01:23,089 hello, everyone. 26 00:01:23,090 --> 00:01:25,129 Thank you so much for coming on there, 27 00:01:25,130 --> 00:01:27,199 and I hope you had a great Congress so 28 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:28,200 far. 29 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:30,709 So, yeah, my name is Nina and one 30 00:01:30,710 --> 00:01:32,599 of the five students who organized the 31 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:33,859 referendum. 32 00:01:33,860 --> 00:01:35,359 And I'm going to tell you all about, 33 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:37,609 like, how we did it and what's coming up 34 00:01:37,610 --> 00:01:39,469 and what this will mean in the greater 35 00:01:39,470 --> 00:01:40,849 scheme of things. 36 00:01:40,850 --> 00:01:42,979 So first of 37 00:01:42,980 --> 00:01:44,449 all, the law, because we need to know 38 00:01:44,450 --> 00:01:45,680 what we're talking about here. 39 00:01:46,910 --> 00:01:47,899 What does it contain? 40 00:01:47,900 --> 00:01:49,969 Well, in Dutch, we call it the state 41 00:01:49,970 --> 00:01:50,970 with which is a 42 00:01:52,910 --> 00:01:55,159 bringing together of the word slightness. 43 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:57,139 And that's which means something like the 44 00:01:57,140 --> 00:02:00,229 Dragonite law, because one of the 45 00:02:00,230 --> 00:02:03,049 allowances in this law is that 46 00:02:03,050 --> 00:02:05,299 intelligence agencies will be allowed to 47 00:02:05,300 --> 00:02:07,459 intercept and targeted traffic 48 00:02:07,460 --> 00:02:08,429 on the cable. 49 00:02:08,430 --> 00:02:10,159 And that means, for instance, when you 50 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,069 live in Rotterdam and there is a suspect 51 00:02:13,070 --> 00:02:15,169 living in the area, 52 00:02:15,170 --> 00:02:17,659 then all of your traffic on the cable 53 00:02:17,660 --> 00:02:20,209 will can be collected, 54 00:02:20,210 --> 00:02:22,069 analyzed and stored for up to three 55 00:02:22,070 --> 00:02:23,449 years, which is a really fucking long 56 00:02:23,450 --> 00:02:24,450 time. 57 00:02:25,790 --> 00:02:27,289 So that's one part of it. 58 00:02:27,290 --> 00:02:29,659 But aside from that, they will also 59 00:02:29,660 --> 00:02:31,939 get access to basically any 60 00:02:31,940 --> 00:02:34,519 database imaginable, which is even 61 00:02:36,110 --> 00:02:37,429 Real-Time. 62 00:02:37,430 --> 00:02:39,859 So the government is saying this is not 63 00:02:39,860 --> 00:02:42,049 a proposal about surveillance, like 64 00:02:42,050 --> 00:02:44,599 with the snoopers charter. 65 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:46,759 However, in 66 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:48,889 implementing that many dragnets, 67 00:02:48,890 --> 00:02:50,389 because there is not a maximum to it and 68 00:02:50,390 --> 00:02:51,709 we don't know how big they will be and 69 00:02:51,710 --> 00:02:53,239 they don't know what they are looking 70 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:54,240 for. 71 00:02:54,640 --> 00:02:56,989 And also adding up to that, the access 72 00:02:56,990 --> 00:02:58,729 to all these databases means that you can 73 00:02:58,730 --> 00:03:01,489 collect a massive amount of data, which 74 00:03:01,490 --> 00:03:03,109 in conclusion is there for mass 75 00:03:03,110 --> 00:03:04,110 surveillance. 76 00:03:04,940 --> 00:03:07,099 Another problem is that it will allow 77 00:03:07,100 --> 00:03:09,949 the hacking of third parties, which so 78 00:03:09,950 --> 00:03:11,779 if you have a terrorist suspect, you can 79 00:03:11,780 --> 00:03:14,089 not just hack them, but also 80 00:03:14,090 --> 00:03:15,559 their mom or the journalist that they 81 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:16,939 have been speaking to. 82 00:03:16,940 --> 00:03:18,799 And obviously that leads to like hoarding 83 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:20,269 zero days when you all get way less 84 00:03:20,270 --> 00:03:22,699 secure and so bad. 85 00:03:22,700 --> 00:03:25,099 And they can also exchange 86 00:03:25,100 --> 00:03:27,349 this data analyzed 87 00:03:27,350 --> 00:03:28,789 with foreign countries. 88 00:03:28,790 --> 00:03:31,489 And this is where human rights advocates 89 00:03:31,490 --> 00:03:33,769 are really worried about because these 90 00:03:33,770 --> 00:03:36,049 countries don't necessarily respect 91 00:03:36,050 --> 00:03:38,809 our freedoms or our rights. 92 00:03:38,810 --> 00:03:40,999 So, yeah, this is really bad 93 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:43,969 and its consequences. Well, that's 94 00:03:43,970 --> 00:03:45,859 usually what I talk about when I do a 95 00:03:45,860 --> 00:03:46,789 presentation about this. 96 00:03:46,790 --> 00:03:48,919 But you are basically the community 97 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:49,849 who has taught me this. 98 00:03:49,850 --> 00:03:51,709 So I feel like preaching to the choir 99 00:03:51,710 --> 00:03:53,729 here. But just to go quickly over, it is 100 00:03:53,730 --> 00:03:55,519 a chilling effect where you start self 101 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:57,199 censoring because you know that all of 102 00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:59,269 your actions might have a consequence in 103 00:03:59,270 --> 00:04:00,259 the future. 104 00:04:00,260 --> 00:04:01,849 And obviously it's also a loss of 105 00:04:01,850 --> 00:04:03,919 privacy. And privacy is such 106 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:05,119 a basic thing. 107 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:06,379 It's a really matter, right? 108 00:04:06,380 --> 00:04:08,449 Like, you can't really have freedom of 109 00:04:08,450 --> 00:04:10,459 speech or even freedom of thought if you 110 00:04:10,460 --> 00:04:12,859 don't have any privacy, because 111 00:04:12,860 --> 00:04:14,719 our online behavior is like a blueprint 112 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:15,769 of our minds. 113 00:04:15,770 --> 00:04:17,028 And that's where they're going to pry 114 00:04:17,029 --> 00:04:17,989 into and. 115 00:04:17,990 --> 00:04:19,518 Well, yeah, you know, the story. 116 00:04:19,519 --> 00:04:21,649 But that's that's kind of where I'm like 117 00:04:23,030 --> 00:04:24,030 May. 118 00:04:25,060 --> 00:04:27,219 So, yeah, this 119 00:04:27,220 --> 00:04:29,739 was our our vibe and we 120 00:04:29,740 --> 00:04:31,870 saw in the summer of this year, 121 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:35,139 the law got passed actually and there 122 00:04:35,140 --> 00:04:37,209 was some upheaval about it in like 123 00:04:37,210 --> 00:04:39,039 upper levels where lobbyists and 124 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,169 lawmakers are 125 00:04:41,170 --> 00:04:42,429 making a fuss about it. But there wasn't 126 00:04:42,430 --> 00:04:44,829 really like a broad public debate. 127 00:04:44,830 --> 00:04:46,969 And we thought, what the fuck, we can 128 00:04:46,970 --> 00:04:48,189 let this happen? 129 00:04:48,190 --> 00:04:49,749 What's the thing that we can do now? 130 00:04:49,750 --> 00:04:50,799 This law has already passed. 131 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,679 Well, if you're just a regular citizen, 132 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:55,839 the only option is to organize 133 00:04:55,840 --> 00:04:58,269 a referendum. And so we felt, 134 00:04:58,270 --> 00:05:00,129 let's do that. 135 00:05:00,130 --> 00:05:01,359 So. Oh, yeah. 136 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:02,360 So 137 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:05,960 thank you. 138 00:05:07,900 --> 00:05:10,209 And in order to organize 139 00:05:10,210 --> 00:05:11,439 a referendum in the Netherlands, you need 140 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:13,719 to get 300000 signatures 141 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:15,729 on a population of 17 million 142 00:05:17,290 --> 00:05:19,389 and referenda aren't really 143 00:05:19,390 --> 00:05:20,860 like Salon for 144 00:05:22,180 --> 00:05:24,309 the after Brexit and 145 00:05:24,310 --> 00:05:26,559 after the Ukraine referendum that we had, 146 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:28,479 people tend to view it as a really 147 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:30,759 populist sort of bad tasting 148 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:32,469 subjects. 149 00:05:32,470 --> 00:05:34,059 But we wanted to try it anyway. 150 00:05:34,060 --> 00:05:36,339 And at first it went pretty well because 151 00:05:36,340 --> 00:05:38,229 we had the first day we had like 5000 152 00:05:38,230 --> 00:05:40,359 signatures next day, 10000 signatures. 153 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:42,039 But that was our little bubble, our 154 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:43,779 little like the hacking community and the 155 00:05:43,780 --> 00:05:46,089 privacy people. And we got 156 00:05:46,090 --> 00:05:47,889 a lot of support from a rather 157 00:05:47,890 --> 00:05:50,349 controversial right wing 158 00:05:50,350 --> 00:05:52,539 blog called Style. 159 00:05:52,540 --> 00:05:53,540 And that got us up 160 00:05:54,670 --> 00:05:56,079 pretty well at first. 161 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:57,080 And then. 162 00:05:58,550 --> 00:05:59,869 Yeah, nothing happened. 163 00:05:59,870 --> 00:06:02,029 It was just really quiet, but then we got 164 00:06:02,030 --> 00:06:04,039 contacted by Amnesty International who 165 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:05,839 said, look, we've tried so hard to stop 166 00:06:05,840 --> 00:06:07,969 this law and nothing worked, but we want 167 00:06:07,970 --> 00:06:08,919 to help you out. 168 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,149 Like they actually got two airplanes 169 00:06:11,150 --> 00:06:13,129 flying around the country saying, I'm 170 00:06:13,130 --> 00:06:14,509 being followed and so are you. 171 00:06:14,510 --> 00:06:17,009 And you need to protest on Slavitt now. 172 00:06:17,010 --> 00:06:19,069 And they and a million 173 00:06:19,070 --> 00:06:21,079 a million fliers which were all stacked 174 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:23,149 up in their office. And we went out to, 175 00:06:23,150 --> 00:06:24,150 like, 176 00:06:25,370 --> 00:06:27,919 hand them out in like markets 177 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:29,929 and such to sort of get out of that 178 00:06:29,930 --> 00:06:31,399 bubble. It was interesting because once 179 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:33,499 you started talking with people on 180 00:06:33,500 --> 00:06:35,419 the streets, they didn't really have an 181 00:06:35,420 --> 00:06:36,949 opinion about it. There weren't that many 182 00:06:36,950 --> 00:06:39,229 people who were just neutral, which 183 00:06:39,230 --> 00:06:40,420 I kind of expected. 184 00:06:41,870 --> 00:06:44,029 Yeah, this is us handing out fliers. 185 00:06:45,420 --> 00:06:48,019 And yeah, so 186 00:06:48,020 --> 00:06:50,419 but then it didn't really, 187 00:06:50,420 --> 00:06:52,489 like, make massive change, and we 188 00:06:52,490 --> 00:06:54,769 were we had six weeks and we were already 189 00:06:54,770 --> 00:06:56,359 in the fourth week and we hadn't even 190 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:58,399 gotten 100000 signatures. 191 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:00,349 And that already was having, like, rage 192 00:07:00,350 --> 00:07:02,329 fits in my room, like how these people, 193 00:07:02,330 --> 00:07:03,469 et cetera, about privacy. 194 00:07:03,470 --> 00:07:04,729 But it don't actually help out. 195 00:07:04,730 --> 00:07:06,149 And I need more support. 196 00:07:06,150 --> 00:07:08,479 Where is everybody and all these parties 197 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:09,769 that don't want to, like, touch the 198 00:07:09,770 --> 00:07:10,909 referendum? 199 00:07:10,910 --> 00:07:12,979 Then we got a message 200 00:07:12,980 --> 00:07:15,229 from our Liuba, which is a comedian in 201 00:07:15,230 --> 00:07:17,119 the Netherlands, really popular satire 202 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:19,489 show. And he said, oh, yeah, 203 00:07:20,540 --> 00:07:22,189 you're going to be in the episode 204 00:07:22,190 --> 00:07:23,419 tonight. So you might want to get some 205 00:07:23,420 --> 00:07:25,220 extra servers were like, what's 206 00:07:26,450 --> 00:07:28,739 so Lukáš and yoga? 207 00:07:28,740 --> 00:07:29,740 I'm just spending time. 208 00:07:31,100 --> 00:07:32,659 And during the episodes, he was still 209 00:07:32,660 --> 00:07:33,920 busy with it and it was like 210 00:07:35,180 --> 00:07:37,879 it was 18 minutes in which he completely 211 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:39,379 wrecked the entire law. 212 00:07:39,380 --> 00:07:41,719 It was his message was basically, 213 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:43,999 imagine your doorbell rings 214 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:45,229 and there's two people outside and 215 00:07:45,230 --> 00:07:46,429 they're government officials and they 216 00:07:46,430 --> 00:07:48,739 say, well, hello, here's a nice 217 00:07:48,740 --> 00:07:50,749 little box and it contains a microphone 218 00:07:50,750 --> 00:07:52,489 and a camera. And we're going to install 219 00:07:52,490 --> 00:07:53,879 this. 220 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:55,729 We might not look at it, but might would 221 00:07:55,730 --> 00:07:57,529 you put him up? No fucking way. 222 00:07:57,530 --> 00:07:58,789 And that's what everybody says. 223 00:07:58,790 --> 00:08:01,069 And then, like, things started 224 00:08:01,070 --> 00:08:02,070 rolling, like 225 00:08:03,590 --> 00:08:05,299 the episode on his own, like, shut us up. 226 00:08:05,300 --> 00:08:07,639 But then it also resulted 227 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:09,769 in the press considering us actual 228 00:08:09,770 --> 00:08:11,839 news, because beforehand we were in this 229 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:13,879 catch 22 where he said, like, if you're 230 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:15,229 not in the news, you're not news. 231 00:08:15,230 --> 00:08:16,699 But if we bring you in the news, we're 232 00:08:16,700 --> 00:08:18,079 making you news. And therefore, we are 233 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:19,569 not neutral on the referendum. 234 00:08:19,570 --> 00:08:21,109 Do so. We can't talk about you. 235 00:08:21,110 --> 00:08:22,159 But after that, good. 236 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:23,810 So it sort of gave a push 237 00:08:25,310 --> 00:08:27,079 for a momentum. 238 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:29,689 And this is this is how it went. 239 00:08:29,690 --> 00:08:32,149 So, like, it's a really big stage. 240 00:08:34,130 --> 00:08:36,199 This is our little 241 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,629 Hakkari privacy bubble that we have here. 242 00:08:38,630 --> 00:08:41,178 And then this is efforts with amnesty 243 00:08:41,179 --> 00:08:42,379 and all that and flowering. 244 00:08:42,380 --> 00:08:45,199 And then there is the 245 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:47,060 episodes and just a 246 00:08:48,680 --> 00:08:50,539 and you can also see the really the spike 247 00:08:50,540 --> 00:08:52,819 like up here is where we 248 00:08:52,820 --> 00:08:55,579 told the press we had 300000 signatures 249 00:08:55,580 --> 00:08:57,769 and everybody's like, oh, wow, 250 00:08:57,770 --> 00:08:58,770 let's talk about this. 251 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:01,859 OK, and 252 00:09:03,230 --> 00:09:05,089 so things that we noticed during this, 253 00:09:05,090 --> 00:09:06,829 because I think it's interesting to think 254 00:09:06,830 --> 00:09:09,499 about what happens when you take the 255 00:09:09,500 --> 00:09:12,079 privacy in the digital rights discussion 256 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:13,819 to a national level, because it doesn't 257 00:09:13,820 --> 00:09:14,820 happen that often. 258 00:09:15,890 --> 00:09:17,539 First of all, people do tend to give a 259 00:09:17,540 --> 00:09:20,059 shit which was unexpected 260 00:09:21,470 --> 00:09:22,829 as soon as you start talking about them 261 00:09:22,830 --> 00:09:25,099 like it wasn't that much effort to make 262 00:09:25,100 --> 00:09:28,099 them go, oh, yeah, this is a point. 263 00:09:28,100 --> 00:09:29,359 And it was really different kinds of 264 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:30,979 people as well. You see, also, 265 00:09:32,750 --> 00:09:34,519 there is not really a left wing or a 266 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:35,929 right wing focus. 267 00:09:35,930 --> 00:09:38,989 So privacy is such a 268 00:09:38,990 --> 00:09:41,299 fundamental right that it's like, yeah, 269 00:09:41,300 --> 00:09:42,769 who's against freedom of speech? 270 00:09:42,770 --> 00:09:44,179 Nobody. 271 00:09:44,180 --> 00:09:45,529 And therefore, you could see that the 272 00:09:45,530 --> 00:09:47,779 rules from every side of the spectrum 273 00:09:49,910 --> 00:09:50,959 activities around this. 274 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:52,969 And I think that was also part of the 275 00:09:52,970 --> 00:09:55,159 success because, yeah, we 276 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:57,289 have many differences, but it's 277 00:09:57,290 --> 00:09:59,389 good to sometimes combine 278 00:09:59,390 --> 00:10:00,390 them for. 279 00:10:01,290 --> 00:10:02,290 A greater good. 280 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,179 Um, yeah, so 281 00:10:06,180 --> 00:10:08,219 news agencies are doing a lot of polls 282 00:10:08,220 --> 00:10:09,719 because they all want to be the one that 283 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:12,059 predicts what's going to be the outcome 284 00:10:12,060 --> 00:10:13,109 and that what you want to see is 285 00:10:13,110 --> 00:10:15,749 interesting, that people below 35 286 00:10:15,750 --> 00:10:17,909 tend to be massively against this 287 00:10:17,910 --> 00:10:20,069 law and then people over 65 tend 288 00:10:20,070 --> 00:10:21,539 to be in favor. 289 00:10:21,540 --> 00:10:22,859 And I think that's interesting because I 290 00:10:22,860 --> 00:10:25,139 think as a millennial, like my entire 291 00:10:25,140 --> 00:10:27,899 identity is based upon 292 00:10:27,900 --> 00:10:30,059 what I did online as a teenager, 293 00:10:30,060 --> 00:10:32,129 and that's like 294 00:10:32,130 --> 00:10:33,929 where all my political ideas come from. 295 00:10:33,930 --> 00:10:36,119 It's why I look like this. 296 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:37,619 But so it's a very intimate thing. 297 00:10:37,620 --> 00:10:39,539 And then for people over 65, it's more of 298 00:10:39,540 --> 00:10:41,609 over email machine and 299 00:10:41,610 --> 00:10:43,409 sometimes get angry at Twitter machine. 300 00:10:43,410 --> 00:10:45,539 So it's a it's a public sphere. 301 00:10:45,540 --> 00:10:47,609 And that's also where this tension 302 00:10:47,610 --> 00:10:49,679 is coming from because, yeah, we 303 00:10:49,680 --> 00:10:51,779 kind of know the differences in 304 00:10:53,010 --> 00:10:54,360 lawmakers and such. 305 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:57,739 Oh, yeah, and, um, 306 00:10:59,330 --> 00:11:01,039 well, I find pretty worrying us like we 307 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:03,169 have these discussions with 308 00:11:03,170 --> 00:11:05,269 politicians and stuff and it goes 309 00:11:05,270 --> 00:11:07,039 like, yeah, but the algorithm this and 310 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:08,329 they're like, yeah, but a lot of truth in 311 00:11:08,330 --> 00:11:09,349 this. And 312 00:11:10,490 --> 00:11:13,069 what was worrying is that they said, 313 00:11:13,070 --> 00:11:14,629 look, there's not really a problem 314 00:11:14,630 --> 00:11:16,789 because we might collect all 315 00:11:16,790 --> 00:11:19,579 of this data, but then as soon 316 00:11:19,580 --> 00:11:21,649 we immediately throw away everything 317 00:11:21,650 --> 00:11:23,779 that is unnecessary and 318 00:11:23,780 --> 00:11:24,949 then you're all fine. 319 00:11:24,950 --> 00:11:27,679 But to completely forget, that's 320 00:11:27,680 --> 00:11:29,749 like big data and like the analysis 321 00:11:29,750 --> 00:11:31,099 of that is not magic, that there is 322 00:11:31,100 --> 00:11:33,499 actually an entity 323 00:11:33,500 --> 00:11:35,029 looking at what you're doing and thinking 324 00:11:35,030 --> 00:11:36,529 of what the consequences of that should 325 00:11:36,530 --> 00:11:38,209 be. And therefore, there shouldn't be a 326 00:11:38,210 --> 00:11:40,279 difference in the ethics 327 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:40,729 around it. 328 00:11:40,730 --> 00:11:43,489 And there's both a comparison and a 329 00:11:43,490 --> 00:11:44,929 combination of 330 00:11:46,010 --> 00:11:48,409 glorification of the tech was 331 00:11:48,410 --> 00:11:50,330 also there being a 332 00:11:52,070 --> 00:11:53,269 ignorance about it. 333 00:11:53,270 --> 00:11:55,119 I think it's a really toxic combination. 334 00:11:58,430 --> 00:12:00,829 So going 335 00:12:00,830 --> 00:12:03,019 on, I believe that this is this 336 00:12:03,020 --> 00:12:05,209 referendum is about just more than just 337 00:12:05,210 --> 00:12:08,509 privacy looking around, 338 00:12:08,510 --> 00:12:10,549 you can see that governments and also 339 00:12:11,630 --> 00:12:14,359 surveillance capitalists are saying, 340 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:16,399 look, you might have all these rights and 341 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:18,259 all these freedoms, but as soon as there 342 00:12:18,260 --> 00:12:19,999 is a computer involved, you don't 343 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,129 understand it. So these rules that we 344 00:12:22,130 --> 00:12:24,109 build up no longer apply. 345 00:12:24,110 --> 00:12:25,009 And it's really dangerous. 346 00:12:25,010 --> 00:12:27,229 And I think that people aren't 347 00:12:27,230 --> 00:12:29,869 as fast to respond to it because of that 348 00:12:29,870 --> 00:12:32,299 bullshit cyber idea around. 349 00:12:32,300 --> 00:12:34,109 It's an. 350 00:12:35,890 --> 00:12:37,809 So, yeah, and I'm worried that because 351 00:12:37,810 --> 00:12:40,359 this is sort of like a baby version 352 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:42,519 of the whole the social credit 353 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:44,589 score, for example, and I really don't 354 00:12:44,590 --> 00:12:46,839 want to go to such lengths. 355 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:48,309 And also because I'm really worried that 356 00:12:48,310 --> 00:12:50,499 once we are there, we will no longer be 357 00:12:50,500 --> 00:12:52,839 able to change it because the dissidents 358 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,039 will already be known before they even 359 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:56,679 know themselves. They are dissidents. 360 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:01,799 I think in order to make do this, 361 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:03,929 I think we need to make our movement more 362 00:13:03,930 --> 00:13:04,930 mainstream. 363 00:13:06,540 --> 00:13:08,639 So like, I kind of would 364 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:10,739 like to walk into the 365 00:13:10,740 --> 00:13:12,299 Urban Outfitters and like next to the 366 00:13:12,300 --> 00:13:14,399 feminism T-shirts and the and 367 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:16,529 to listen to is like, hey, I'm a privacy 368 00:13:16,530 --> 00:13:17,969 activist and it's a horrible, like, 369 00:13:17,970 --> 00:13:20,129 capitalist way of doing activism. 370 00:13:20,130 --> 00:13:22,079 But it does sort of show that it's sort 371 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:23,969 of a broad thing. 372 00:13:23,970 --> 00:13:26,369 And it's so important that we 373 00:13:26,370 --> 00:13:28,409 also includes people that we completely 374 00:13:28,410 --> 00:13:29,410 dislike 375 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:31,859 to make it broader. 376 00:13:31,860 --> 00:13:33,929 And yeah, it's not just because 377 00:13:33,930 --> 00:13:35,699 it's handy for ourselves, but it's also 378 00:13:35,700 --> 00:13:37,589 our responsibility, because if we're not 379 00:13:37,590 --> 00:13:39,449 going to do it, nobody else is going to 380 00:13:39,450 --> 00:13:40,089 do it. 381 00:13:40,090 --> 00:13:42,179 So as a community, we need to get out 382 00:13:42,180 --> 00:13:45,059 of our ivory tower to, like, 383 00:13:45,060 --> 00:13:46,919 change the system instead of subvert it 384 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,079 as well and also suppressing 385 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:50,080 its. 386 00:13:55,990 --> 00:13:58,209 So where we are now, 387 00:13:58,210 --> 00:14:00,429 we are going to have a referendum 388 00:14:00,430 --> 00:14:02,289 on the 21st of March. 389 00:14:02,290 --> 00:14:03,399 Yeah. And. 390 00:14:06,070 --> 00:14:09,009 The state of affairs now is that the 391 00:14:09,010 --> 00:14:11,409 government says it's an advisory 392 00:14:11,410 --> 00:14:13,419 referendum so they can completely ignore 393 00:14:13,420 --> 00:14:15,369 the outcome and they've already said that 394 00:14:15,370 --> 00:14:16,899 they're going to do that. And I think 395 00:14:16,900 --> 00:14:19,479 it's a stupid idea ever, 396 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,089 especially because I can see a momentum 397 00:14:22,090 --> 00:14:23,919 growing where all these different groups 398 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:25,479 are getting together and speaking out 399 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:27,940 about it. So it would not just be 400 00:14:29,020 --> 00:14:31,539 ignoring the entire democratic 401 00:14:31,540 --> 00:14:33,819 process and the voice of the people, 402 00:14:33,820 --> 00:14:36,249 but also hurting a growing 403 00:14:36,250 --> 00:14:38,409 movement that will then lash out even 404 00:14:38,410 --> 00:14:40,419 harder, in my opinion. 405 00:14:40,420 --> 00:14:42,539 So they better not ignore it 406 00:14:42,540 --> 00:14:43,540 a lot. Focus 407 00:14:44,860 --> 00:14:45,860 and. 408 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:54,039 One other thing is that 409 00:14:55,390 --> 00:14:56,979 I had this really naive still like a 410 00:14:56,980 --> 00:14:58,719 little bit left of trust in the 411 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:00,339 government, in the system. 412 00:15:00,340 --> 00:15:02,559 Turns out they keep saying that 413 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,039 this law is necessary because it 414 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:08,319 by the current law, it's not allowed 415 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,269 to intercept cable traffic. 416 00:15:10,270 --> 00:15:11,469 And of course, I understand that you need 417 00:15:11,470 --> 00:15:13,309 to be able to do that for actual terror 418 00:15:13,310 --> 00:15:14,859 suspects. But turns out they've been 419 00:15:14,860 --> 00:15:16,389 doing that since like 2002. 420 00:15:16,390 --> 00:15:18,669 It is actual numbers for the number of 421 00:15:18,670 --> 00:15:20,529 cable interceptions they've already done. 422 00:15:20,530 --> 00:15:22,419 And it's a complete lie and it's a 423 00:15:22,420 --> 00:15:24,320 narrative they're spreading out. 424 00:15:26,170 --> 00:15:27,429 So that's a rather disappointing. 425 00:15:27,430 --> 00:15:29,469 And they've even been repeating it so 426 00:15:29,470 --> 00:15:31,539 often that at some point I just 427 00:15:31,540 --> 00:15:33,879 started to shut up, that cable 428 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:36,069 traffic was already 429 00:15:36,070 --> 00:15:38,499 true. But to be clear, 430 00:15:38,500 --> 00:15:39,969 they're already intercepting cable 431 00:15:39,970 --> 00:15:42,369 traffic, just not on target. 432 00:15:42,370 --> 00:15:43,370 It's. 433 00:15:44,580 --> 00:15:45,809 So what's next? 434 00:15:46,950 --> 00:15:48,269 Yeah, we are going to container 435 00:15:48,270 --> 00:15:49,109 ourselves. 436 00:15:49,110 --> 00:15:51,209 Well, actually, you're going to die 437 00:15:51,210 --> 00:15:53,129 and are going back to studying and Marlo 438 00:15:53,130 --> 00:15:55,410 and Luke and I are going to campaign. 439 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,099 So something that's important to get 440 00:15:59,100 --> 00:16:01,379 rid of is the whole the fake 441 00:16:01,380 --> 00:16:03,479 privacy versus safety 442 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,639 idea, because it's it's just it 443 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:07,769 doesn't make sense. Like, your privacy 444 00:16:07,770 --> 00:16:10,169 is a you know, 445 00:16:10,170 --> 00:16:11,549 you have your privacy. 446 00:16:11,550 --> 00:16:13,079 Privacy is a human rights. 447 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,059 Why do we have human rights to protect 448 00:16:15,060 --> 00:16:17,309 citizens? What do we do when we harm 449 00:16:17,310 --> 00:16:18,209 human rights? 450 00:16:18,210 --> 00:16:20,249 The citizens are less safe. 451 00:16:20,250 --> 00:16:22,859 So and it's not even effective and 452 00:16:22,860 --> 00:16:24,659 a good thing. Also, again, credit to 453 00:16:24,660 --> 00:16:26,849 Arianna Lubar. He introduced the term 454 00:16:26,850 --> 00:16:29,070 tigerish Folbre, which is like 455 00:16:30,420 --> 00:16:32,069 when a politician gets criticized, it can 456 00:16:32,070 --> 00:16:34,319 be like, oh, no, don't criticize 457 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,269 me. It's because of the terrorists. 458 00:16:36,270 --> 00:16:37,839 And I get away with that. 459 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:39,659 So that's a good term. 460 00:16:39,660 --> 00:16:42,479 I would like to give that in the thing 461 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:44,609 and something to repeat 462 00:16:44,610 --> 00:16:46,769 myself. But I want to include as 463 00:16:46,770 --> 00:16:48,959 many different kinds of groups 464 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:51,179 of citizens to make this a broad 465 00:16:51,180 --> 00:16:53,279 thing so that everybody can find out why 466 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:54,779 they should care about this law. 467 00:16:58,110 --> 00:17:00,239 Aside from that, we also 468 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,399 started a foundation which at first was 469 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,439 just to like get subsidies for the 470 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:06,539 campaign. But like after this, we're 471 00:17:06,540 --> 00:17:08,818 going to do like direct action stuff 472 00:17:08,819 --> 00:17:10,319 against Massachusets to. 473 00:17:12,210 --> 00:17:13,210 Oh, that's day ends. 474 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:15,608 And I'm looking forward to having a. 475 00:17:25,089 --> 00:17:26,559 Thank you very much. 476 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,079 And so 477 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:48,930 I will say first. 478 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:53,040 Your question? 479 00:17:54,430 --> 00:17:56,769 Well, yeah, thanks a lot for your 480 00:17:56,770 --> 00:17:58,309 presentation actually living in 481 00:17:58,310 --> 00:17:59,589 Netherlands at the moment, so I'm really 482 00:17:59,590 --> 00:18:01,959 happy to see such campaign 483 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:03,849 organizing and I have a really small 484 00:18:03,850 --> 00:18:04,989 question. 485 00:18:04,990 --> 00:18:07,509 Did your support of other association 486 00:18:07,510 --> 00:18:09,309 or punishment like the bits of freedom or 487 00:18:09,310 --> 00:18:11,289 other in the Netherlands, but also 488 00:18:11,290 --> 00:18:13,719 outside Netherlands for what you've done? 489 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:14,589 Yes, good question. 490 00:18:14,590 --> 00:18:15,759 I forgot to say that. 491 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:16,729 Sorry. 492 00:18:16,730 --> 00:18:18,099 Yeah. We're getting really good support 493 00:18:18,100 --> 00:18:19,839 from bits of freedom, though, in the in 494 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:20,979 the campaign. And also Amnesty 495 00:18:20,980 --> 00:18:23,079 International's ready for battle and 496 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:24,099 the Pirate Party. 497 00:18:25,870 --> 00:18:27,249 Yeah. And yeah. 498 00:18:27,250 --> 00:18:29,319 So there is it's also 499 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,719 it's it's not like we are the core 500 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:32,979 of this campaign. 501 00:18:32,980 --> 00:18:35,049 It's really a decentralized sort 502 00:18:35,050 --> 00:18:36,549 of thing. So everybody is just 503 00:18:37,990 --> 00:18:38,990 there to 504 00:18:40,830 --> 00:18:42,939 to do their own 505 00:18:42,940 --> 00:18:44,109 thing. And I think it's really important 506 00:18:44,110 --> 00:18:46,329 because I, I realized I 507 00:18:46,330 --> 00:18:48,549 skipped a slide because I really want you 508 00:18:48,550 --> 00:18:50,739 all to think 509 00:18:50,740 --> 00:18:52,929 that nobody else 510 00:18:52,930 --> 00:18:54,609 is going to do it unless you are going to 511 00:18:54,610 --> 00:18:56,679 do it. So please all speak up 512 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:58,599 about it and talk about this referendum 513 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:00,519 also like amnesty and bits of freedom to 514 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:01,839 those individuals. 515 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:03,939 And if you are not 516 00:19:03,940 --> 00:19:05,409 living in the Netherlands, it's also 517 00:19:05,410 --> 00:19:06,909 important for us because we need 518 00:19:06,910 --> 00:19:08,409 international support because the 519 00:19:08,410 --> 00:19:09,759 Netherlands is really fucking small. 520 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:11,709 And when the prime minister sees that the 521 00:19:11,710 --> 00:19:13,539 big boys like Germany and France are 522 00:19:13,540 --> 00:19:15,679 talking about it and they will be have 523 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:17,529 a more incentive to actually do something 524 00:19:17,530 --> 00:19:18,879 with it. And at the same time, your 525 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,009 governments might realize that they 526 00:19:21,010 --> 00:19:23,109 won't get away that easy with such 527 00:19:23,110 --> 00:19:25,089 mass surveillance. So everybody, please 528 00:19:25,090 --> 00:19:27,430 be as loud as possible about this thing. 529 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:29,560 Yeah. 530 00:19:37,230 --> 00:19:39,569 I have one second, we have another 531 00:19:39,570 --> 00:19:41,609 question from the Internet. 532 00:19:41,610 --> 00:19:42,749 Yes, thank you. 533 00:19:42,750 --> 00:19:44,969 The IOC wants to know, do you have 534 00:19:44,970 --> 00:19:47,729 hope that this surveillance thing will 535 00:19:47,730 --> 00:19:48,730 go away ever? 536 00:19:51,110 --> 00:19:53,239 Yes, I do have hope, otherwise I would 537 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:55,819 just sit in my room and be depressed, but 538 00:19:55,820 --> 00:19:57,649 I think I'm an optimist, so I do think 539 00:19:57,650 --> 00:19:59,239 it's possible. But I'm also a cynic and I 540 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:00,289 think it's going to be really fucking 541 00:20:00,290 --> 00:20:01,290 hard. 542 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:03,259 So it's our responsibility to keep 543 00:20:03,260 --> 00:20:05,359 fighting for that and. 544 00:20:06,730 --> 00:20:07,809 Yeah, but I think it's possible. 545 00:20:07,810 --> 00:20:08,810 I mean, like 546 00:20:10,150 --> 00:20:11,709 200 years ago, you wouldn't think that 547 00:20:11,710 --> 00:20:14,349 women would be allowed to have a life and 548 00:20:14,350 --> 00:20:15,379 that changed as well. 549 00:20:15,380 --> 00:20:17,169 So if they could do it, why can't we do 550 00:20:17,170 --> 00:20:18,170 it? 551 00:20:25,090 --> 00:20:26,230 The next question 552 00:20:27,250 --> 00:20:29,379 I would like to ask a small thing, 553 00:20:29,380 --> 00:20:31,479 because a lot of people are 554 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,639 talking about. No, no, we will only 555 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:35,769 keep the part of the disk of the 556 00:20:35,770 --> 00:20:37,989 data that we question 557 00:20:37,990 --> 00:20:39,759 not to comment, but 558 00:20:40,810 --> 00:20:43,149 the they say 559 00:20:43,150 --> 00:20:45,639 we will destroy irrelevant data. 560 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:47,919 But the point of big data is there 561 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,679 is no relevant data, so 562 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,259 there is no need for destroying anything. 563 00:20:53,260 --> 00:20:54,439 So. 564 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:55,680 Yeah, no question. 565 00:20:58,340 --> 00:21:00,499 OK, you know 566 00:21:00,500 --> 00:21:02,579 what, all what a question is. 567 00:21:02,580 --> 00:21:04,859 OK, I just wanted 568 00:21:04,860 --> 00:21:06,949 to make sure the next 569 00:21:06,950 --> 00:21:08,900 question there from Hrbek. 570 00:21:10,970 --> 00:21:13,039 So I was wondering, you said 571 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,439 if the referendum was ignored, then 572 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:16,519 you would escalate. 573 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,069 Do you like what forms of escalation 574 00:21:19,070 --> 00:21:20,479 are you thinking of and do you think 575 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:22,819 that's a good thing, escalating or 576 00:21:22,820 --> 00:21:24,979 like I wasn't sure in your opinion 577 00:21:24,980 --> 00:21:26,209 on this and. 578 00:21:27,410 --> 00:21:30,109 Well, hope you're not from the RCD, but 579 00:21:30,110 --> 00:21:31,110 no, I'm not. 580 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,619 Escalation sounds like very like overall 581 00:21:34,620 --> 00:21:36,859 that I think I mean, more 582 00:21:36,860 --> 00:21:38,869 in that sort of escalation in the public 583 00:21:38,870 --> 00:21:40,519 debate because it's already having this 584 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:42,559 momentum where everybody's starting to 585 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:43,849 talk about this. 586 00:21:43,850 --> 00:21:46,069 And now that because I believe 587 00:21:46,070 --> 00:21:48,229 people might realize that they care 588 00:21:48,230 --> 00:21:49,549 about this and they even have a voice 589 00:21:49,550 --> 00:21:52,189 about it, it will become 590 00:21:52,190 --> 00:21:54,379 a much stronger movement if 591 00:21:54,380 --> 00:21:56,119 they ignore it. And if they don't, I 592 00:21:56,120 --> 00:21:58,219 believe if 593 00:21:58,220 --> 00:21:59,419 that answers your question. 594 00:21:59,420 --> 00:22:00,519 Yeah. Thank you. OK, 595 00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:06,059 for next question number two. 596 00:22:06,060 --> 00:22:07,669 All right. Thanks for your work. 597 00:22:07,670 --> 00:22:08,930 I promise. This is a question. 598 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:12,260 So in terms of escalation, 599 00:22:13,580 --> 00:22:15,709 we see that once you get on the 600 00:22:15,710 --> 00:22:17,959 news, the satire, the you know, 601 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:19,819 the Jon Stewart's the daily shows in that 602 00:22:19,820 --> 00:22:22,279 guy who gave you all your publicity 603 00:22:23,450 --> 00:22:25,579 wouldn't be the best way to get 604 00:22:25,580 --> 00:22:27,379 mass understanding by the populace. 605 00:22:27,380 --> 00:22:29,149 And backing you is to kind of have 606 00:22:29,150 --> 00:22:30,289 sustained episodes. 607 00:22:30,290 --> 00:22:31,290 Do you have a 608 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,209 a communication with with the producers? 609 00:22:36,210 --> 00:22:37,849 Are you able to get a subsequent episode 610 00:22:37,850 --> 00:22:40,429 and kind of keep that fire burning? 611 00:22:40,430 --> 00:22:41,810 Um, well. 612 00:22:44,190 --> 00:22:46,259 I feel like it would be sort of 613 00:22:46,260 --> 00:22:48,539 unfair to just sort of keep actually 614 00:22:48,540 --> 00:22:49,949 there were there was a group of people 615 00:22:49,950 --> 00:22:51,899 who started writing them like, oh, yeah, 616 00:22:51,900 --> 00:22:52,949 you really need to talk about this 617 00:22:52,950 --> 00:22:54,020 episode and blah, blah, blah. 618 00:22:56,460 --> 00:22:57,460 But. 619 00:22:58,650 --> 00:22:59,650 I think. 620 00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:02,189 I think it's more of a result of all the 621 00:23:02,190 --> 00:23:04,079 hard work that we put into it, that the 622 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:05,690 episode was there and 623 00:23:06,980 --> 00:23:09,599 and and also for 624 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:11,279 like it wasn't like that solved 625 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:12,629 everything. It was more because there was 626 00:23:12,630 --> 00:23:14,729 so much going on that then you 627 00:23:14,730 --> 00:23:16,709 couldn't really not talk about it. 628 00:23:16,710 --> 00:23:18,719 So I wouldn't want to sort of 629 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:20,969 artificially and for sets. 630 00:23:20,970 --> 00:23:22,829 I just want to like do a lot of shit and 631 00:23:22,830 --> 00:23:24,989 then make sure that the right people 632 00:23:24,990 --> 00:23:25,990 response. 633 00:23:28,910 --> 00:23:31,849 Another question from the Internet. 634 00:23:31,850 --> 00:23:33,559 Yes, I have a question from a Dutch 635 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:34,459 citizen. 636 00:23:34,460 --> 00:23:36,739 Is there anything we should do except 637 00:23:36,740 --> 00:23:37,740 voting? 638 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:41,779 Yeah, you need to to, 639 00:23:43,110 --> 00:23:44,110 um. 640 00:23:45,270 --> 00:23:47,339 The most important thing is that this 641 00:23:47,340 --> 00:23:49,019 discussion keeps singing around and what 642 00:23:49,020 --> 00:23:51,209 we noticed with doing the 643 00:23:51,210 --> 00:23:53,159 signature thing, like, yes, you can put 644 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,349 up posters and do like the social media 645 00:23:55,350 --> 00:23:56,549 campaign and stuff, but. 646 00:23:58,690 --> 00:24:00,849 Clearly, if such a big 647 00:24:00,850 --> 00:24:02,469 national discussion is really important, 648 00:24:02,470 --> 00:24:04,359 that you actually talk to people that you 649 00:24:04,360 --> 00:24:07,029 know, so if, for instance, 650 00:24:07,030 --> 00:24:09,159 you have a community that people like to 651 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,289 listen to for you are a teacher or 652 00:24:11,290 --> 00:24:13,389 I don't know, there's 653 00:24:13,390 --> 00:24:14,619 people that stand in a church 654 00:24:16,060 --> 00:24:18,039 like police, also reach out to your own 655 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,169 communities, these groups of people, and 656 00:24:20,170 --> 00:24:22,179 also talk to your mom and to your dad 657 00:24:22,180 --> 00:24:24,339 about this, because that way we can cover 658 00:24:24,340 --> 00:24:26,529 the whole 65 plus area. 659 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:31,909 Next question. 660 00:24:31,910 --> 00:24:33,649 Yeah, first, thank you for the 661 00:24:33,650 --> 00:24:35,839 Superleague talk, also 662 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:36,949 perfect follow up question to the 663 00:24:36,950 --> 00:24:38,269 question before I live in the 664 00:24:38,270 --> 00:24:40,419 Netherlands, but I'm not a Dutch citizen. 665 00:24:40,420 --> 00:24:42,529 Um, what are ways for me to 666 00:24:42,530 --> 00:24:44,029 get involved and engaged with the 667 00:24:44,030 --> 00:24:45,739 campaign? Yeah. 668 00:24:45,740 --> 00:24:46,740 And. 669 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:49,439 Just quick, are you do you have like a 670 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:50,440 tech background 671 00:24:51,540 --> 00:24:52,949 or something? No. 672 00:24:52,950 --> 00:24:55,019 OK, well, we kind of need also 673 00:24:55,020 --> 00:24:57,239 more because I mentioned the hacking 674 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:58,919 of third parties. We need more people 675 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:00,899 from our community actually to speak up 676 00:25:00,900 --> 00:25:02,399 about that as well, because we have a lot 677 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,269 of journalists and human rights activists 678 00:25:04,270 --> 00:25:06,679 and stuff, but not really the cyber 679 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:07,680 people. 680 00:25:08,550 --> 00:25:09,550 And 681 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,439 yeah, we're setting up like maybe 682 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,659 if you if 683 00:25:15,660 --> 00:25:17,069 you follow, like what we are going to do, 684 00:25:17,070 --> 00:25:19,079 we're going to like make fliers again and 685 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,179 organize events that can be discussions 686 00:25:21,180 --> 00:25:22,929 and stuff. You could also like organize a 687 00:25:22,930 --> 00:25:24,809 discussion things there's actually still 688 00:25:24,810 --> 00:25:26,489 subsidy's you can ask for so you can get 689 00:25:26,490 --> 00:25:29,129 5000 years for individual campaigns 690 00:25:29,130 --> 00:25:30,130 if you want. 691 00:25:31,260 --> 00:25:32,309 Or maybe that's audience. 692 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,179 But I don't know yet. 693 00:25:36,180 --> 00:25:37,829 Talking is really easy, but then also 694 00:25:37,830 --> 00:25:40,169 maybe more creative things like events 695 00:25:40,170 --> 00:25:42,419 and T-shirts and all that. 696 00:25:42,420 --> 00:25:44,549 And then we also make like things 697 00:25:44,550 --> 00:25:46,019 that we can hand out like fliers here. 698 00:25:46,020 --> 00:25:47,789 Some fliers go stand in the streets and 699 00:25:47,790 --> 00:25:49,349 hand out fliers and you're supposed to 700 00:25:49,350 --> 00:25:50,939 put up the poster. 701 00:25:50,940 --> 00:25:53,009 So, yeah, you can email us 702 00:25:53,010 --> 00:25:55,229 and then they'll send you stuff 703 00:25:55,230 --> 00:25:57,299 and oh yeah, somebody is setting 704 00:25:57,300 --> 00:25:58,979 up a mail server right now, so please 705 00:25:58,980 --> 00:25:59,980 don't mail now. 706 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:03,770 And we'll also put it up somewhere. 707 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,379 Next question number three, 708 00:26:08,380 --> 00:26:10,479 and you sign online or offline 709 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,639 and what's the ratio between online and 710 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:14,349 offline seiners if there is online 711 00:26:14,350 --> 00:26:15,350 signage? 712 00:26:15,940 --> 00:26:17,979 That's what's interesting, because we put 713 00:26:17,980 --> 00:26:19,689 up a website that's basically our main 714 00:26:19,690 --> 00:26:21,249 thing, and that's where people could sign 715 00:26:21,250 --> 00:26:23,349 online and that there 716 00:26:23,350 --> 00:26:25,869 were a lot of people who also 717 00:26:25,870 --> 00:26:27,939 basically what we did is you 718 00:26:27,940 --> 00:26:30,519 have to hand in paper signatures, 719 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:31,509 but you're allowed to collect them 720 00:26:31,510 --> 00:26:31,909 online. 721 00:26:31,910 --> 00:26:33,969 So we got all these signatures and then 722 00:26:33,970 --> 00:26:36,289 printed them on the forums. 723 00:26:36,290 --> 00:26:38,139 The thousand signatures is a lot in 724 00:26:38,140 --> 00:26:39,819 paper. We drove them to the other side of 725 00:26:39,820 --> 00:26:41,649 the country, handing them back in and 726 00:26:41,650 --> 00:26:42,879 they put it into shredder. 727 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:43,959 That was that's. 728 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,109 And then people could also send 729 00:26:46,110 --> 00:26:47,709 them themselves. 730 00:26:47,710 --> 00:26:49,929 And I believe there were about 10000 731 00:26:49,930 --> 00:26:51,189 people who did that. 732 00:26:51,190 --> 00:26:53,459 Also, if you were living outside 733 00:26:53,460 --> 00:26:55,029 the net, you had to do so. 734 00:26:55,030 --> 00:26:57,279 And it was also like it 735 00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,409 was a bit of a paradox because we 736 00:26:59,410 --> 00:27:01,599 had to collect a lot of data 737 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,729 like your your your your place of 738 00:27:03,730 --> 00:27:05,769 birth and and your signatures. 739 00:27:05,770 --> 00:27:08,169 And of course, everybody was really a bit 740 00:27:08,170 --> 00:27:09,199 weirded out by that. 741 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,169 So we told those people like, yeah, we 742 00:27:11,170 --> 00:27:12,099 can't do anything else. 743 00:27:12,100 --> 00:27:13,959 But if you don't trust us, please just 744 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:15,639 write to the thing. 745 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,799 But what do you mean by shredder of a 746 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,079 con or a Twitter account. 747 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,239 Yeah, so they send 748 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,339 them all in and then it went 749 00:27:24,340 --> 00:27:25,989 into their system and then they shredded 750 00:27:25,990 --> 00:27:26,990 the thing. 751 00:27:28,170 --> 00:27:30,419 So, yeah, a moment 752 00:27:30,420 --> 00:27:31,499 of silence for the trees. 753 00:27:35,610 --> 00:27:37,920 Next question is from the Internet again. 754 00:27:42,300 --> 00:27:44,429 Thank you, Sleaford, and 755 00:27:44,430 --> 00:27:45,539 needs to be updated. 756 00:27:45,540 --> 00:27:47,579 For example, the 21st March is not 757 00:27:47,580 --> 00:27:48,479 mentioned there. 758 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,280 Will the Web site be updated soon? 759 00:27:51,900 --> 00:27:54,179 Yes, but 760 00:27:54,180 --> 00:27:56,129 because we are moving, the website was 761 00:27:56,130 --> 00:27:58,299 basically there to do the whole 762 00:27:58,300 --> 00:28:00,149 signature campaign. 763 00:28:00,150 --> 00:28:01,889 And it's not entirely clear what kind of 764 00:28:01,890 --> 00:28:03,570 role it's going to play in the campaign. 765 00:28:05,070 --> 00:28:06,449 But yeah, I'll update. 766 00:28:06,450 --> 00:28:07,529 It is a good day, you say. 767 00:28:12,100 --> 00:28:13,929 OK, next question. 768 00:28:13,930 --> 00:28:16,089 OK. Uh, 21st 769 00:28:16,090 --> 00:28:18,249 of March next year is also the date of 770 00:28:18,250 --> 00:28:21,429 the local community elections. 771 00:28:21,430 --> 00:28:23,559 Do you combine that, uh, 772 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:24,999 that activity together? 773 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,429 Because you have you can organize 774 00:28:27,430 --> 00:28:28,430 local 775 00:28:29,650 --> 00:28:31,779 opponents and parties for 776 00:28:31,780 --> 00:28:33,189 that for your goal. 777 00:28:33,190 --> 00:28:34,329 That's a good idea. 778 00:28:34,330 --> 00:28:35,859 We're still thinking about the options 779 00:28:35,860 --> 00:28:37,839 there also, because just like a lot of 780 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:39,609 political parties that are going to do 781 00:28:39,610 --> 00:28:42,709 run a municipality campaign and, uh, 782 00:28:42,710 --> 00:28:45,579 Slavitt campaign and 783 00:28:45,580 --> 00:28:47,109 to be honest, I'm not sure yet on how 784 00:28:47,110 --> 00:28:49,239 that's going to shape up together 785 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,339 with local. Uh, yeah, 786 00:28:51,340 --> 00:28:54,009 of course. Yeah, that's a good idea. 787 00:28:54,010 --> 00:28:56,649 And by that, you can mobilize 788 00:28:56,650 --> 00:28:59,709 the international students in a lot of 789 00:28:59,710 --> 00:29:01,839 the cities. Of course, we 790 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,089 normally don't vote. 791 00:29:04,090 --> 00:29:05,469 Yeah. And can still have a role. 792 00:29:05,470 --> 00:29:06,489 And it's. Yeah. 793 00:29:06,490 --> 00:29:07,809 Thank you for your question. 794 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:10,059 Next question. 795 00:29:10,060 --> 00:29:11,410 I need to thank you for your call 796 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:14,089 and talk about this. 797 00:29:15,130 --> 00:29:17,020 Are there any people that might 798 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,289 be able to do certain stuff like 799 00:29:20,290 --> 00:29:21,939 marketing and campaigning, have 800 00:29:21,940 --> 00:29:24,129 experience with these kind of things that 801 00:29:24,130 --> 00:29:26,259 you would be glad with the would mail 802 00:29:26,260 --> 00:29:28,359 you or help you out setting this up 803 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:29,409 because you only have two months? 804 00:29:30,700 --> 00:29:32,799 Yeah, I just like set up 805 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:34,719 the whole plan of the campaign and is 806 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:36,669 actually way more than I think we can 807 00:29:36,670 --> 00:29:39,099 handle. Um, 808 00:29:39,100 --> 00:29:41,819 we need to 809 00:29:41,820 --> 00:29:43,809 we need a bunch of events that we are 810 00:29:43,810 --> 00:29:45,369 going to organize. So if people have 811 00:29:46,570 --> 00:29:48,549 spaces, can also be autonomous spaces 812 00:29:48,550 --> 00:29:50,200 where we can do like 813 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:53,979 sessions with people, that will be good. 814 00:29:53,980 --> 00:29:56,109 Um, 815 00:29:56,110 --> 00:29:57,969 and we have a lot of campaign material, 816 00:29:57,970 --> 00:30:00,189 again, that needs to be spread 817 00:30:00,190 --> 00:30:01,539 out. 818 00:30:01,540 --> 00:30:02,809 So that would also be nice for people 819 00:30:02,810 --> 00:30:05,349 help their um. 820 00:30:06,990 --> 00:30:09,479 I think those are the main things 821 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,639 maybe specialist in marketing 822 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:13,409 or technicians work. 823 00:30:13,410 --> 00:30:15,029 I mean, you just told that there was a 824 00:30:15,030 --> 00:30:17,729 mail server being set up right now. 825 00:30:17,730 --> 00:30:19,829 Maybe people are actually experienced 826 00:30:19,830 --> 00:30:21,539 enough here that would like to help. 827 00:30:21,540 --> 00:30:22,650 Is it possible? How? 828 00:30:24,270 --> 00:30:26,279 Well, I think. 829 00:30:30,010 --> 00:30:31,959 I think OK, on the technical aspect of 830 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,420 it, because we got that down, but 831 00:30:36,460 --> 00:30:38,949 marketing thinks it's mainly 832 00:30:38,950 --> 00:30:41,139 I'm still rather nice and 833 00:30:41,140 --> 00:30:43,209 all my friends about how the system 834 00:30:43,210 --> 00:30:45,039 works, how government works. 835 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,199 And I'm just like, hey, we have a good 836 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:48,579 idea. Do what you want with it. 837 00:30:48,580 --> 00:30:50,439 And then there's all the house of cards 838 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:52,539 kind of type that I don't understand. 839 00:30:52,540 --> 00:30:54,459 So I'd like a lot of like to have 840 00:30:54,460 --> 00:30:57,529 discussions about that with experts 841 00:30:57,530 --> 00:31:00,019 for marketing. Actually, we don't really 842 00:31:00,020 --> 00:31:01,779 I don't really want like a massive sort 843 00:31:01,780 --> 00:31:04,210 of marketing 844 00:31:05,500 --> 00:31:08,259 company to get involved because 845 00:31:08,260 --> 00:31:11,139 it's it's very much a citizen's efforts. 846 00:31:11,140 --> 00:31:13,099 However, feedback would be really good, 847 00:31:13,100 --> 00:31:15,239 like having sort of discussions about 848 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,109 it because, yeah, we don't know what the 849 00:31:17,110 --> 00:31:18,639 fuck we're doing, but we do have a sense 850 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,469 of what we're doing and like being able 851 00:31:20,470 --> 00:31:21,470 to 852 00:31:22,810 --> 00:31:24,999 go with people that would be 853 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,069 good. Maybe I will be drinking away 854 00:31:27,070 --> 00:31:28,449 my nerves in the bar after this. 855 00:31:28,450 --> 00:31:29,450 Just come to me. 856 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,189 Thank you very, very much. 857 00:31:33,190 --> 00:31:34,299 We're running out of time. 858 00:31:34,300 --> 00:31:36,529 So this was unfortunately the last 859 00:31:36,530 --> 00:31:37,519 question. 860 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,759 I have another very, very warm 861 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:41,829 applause for this incredible 862 00:31:41,830 --> 00:31:42,830 action.